Interbeing
Interbeing is a podcast by MSB exploring what it means to lead, coach, and live in a deeply interconnected world. Hosted by Naomi Ward and Matt Hall, the show brings together educators, coaches, and thought leaders to reflect on the questions shaping international schools and beyond. Inspired by Thich Nhat Hanh's teaching on 'interbeing,' the podcast recognizes that nothing exists in isolation. Expect honest dialogue, stories from the field, and a commitment to learning in public.
Episodes
The Essence of Teamwork, with Nick Pope
In this episode of the Interbeing podcast, Naomi and Kyra are joined by Nick Pope, a speaker, facilitator, and coach with extensive experience working with executive teams globally. Nick shares insights from his new book 'Are You a Team or a Meeting?' discussing themes of teamwork, prioritisation, and the significance of purpose in teams. He provides valuable advice on transforming meeti
Exploring Interconnectedness: a mid-point pause
At this mid-point in the season, we’re taking a short pause, and asking ourselves the question - What does it mean to be human?In this episode Naomi and Matt discuss the importance of understanding the human condition, the temporary nature of the term 'human,' and the ongoing quest for connection in an increasingly isolated world. They look back at some highlights of our conversations so
Human Connection and Purpose in International Education, with Hayley Wilson
In this episode of Interbeing we dive into a profound conversation with Hayley Wilson, Deputy Head of the Senior School at Kellett School in Hong Kong. We explore the role of coaching in fostering a sense of community and humanity within schools, emphasizing values of care, curiosity, and meaningful relationships. Hayley shares her personal and professional journey toward adopting a purpose-driven
Cultural Change through Coaching, with Chris Bromham
In this episode Matt and Naomi discuss the profound impact of coaching on school culture with their guest, Chris Broman from ICS Madrid. They explore themes of interconnectedness, the transformative power of coaching, and the importance of maintaining humanity in education. Chris shares his experiences and insights from introducing coaching into his school, highlighting the challenges and successe
Embracing Ubuntu in Coaching, with Nobantu Mpotulo
In this episode we delve into the philosophy and practice of coaching, with Nobantu Mpotulo, a coach from Pretoria, South Africa, who introduces listeners to the concept of Ubuntu and the importance of seeing the interconnectedness in all human relationships. The conversation explores how embracing these principles can transform coaching practices and personal development, encouraging a collective
Exploring Coaching and Cultural Integration, with Mai Mahmoud
In this episode, the conversation centers on coaching within educational environments, emphasizing how coaching techniques align with and support both personal growth and community development. Our guest, Mai Mahmoud, shares her journey from initial skepticism to embracing coaching as a way of life, deeply integrated with her Islamic faith. The discussion explores the impact of cultural and lingui
Interconnectedness, AI and Coaching, with Rob Kemp
Diving into the core of coaching, the episode explores its values and impact on individuals and organisations, particularly schools. Our guest, Rob Kemp, shares insights on measuring the impact of coaching, the role of authenticity, and the emerging relationship between AI and coaching. The conversation also touches on the readiness of organisations for coaching and the broader implications of the
Making teaching a more family-friendly career for parents: Emma Sheppard of the MTPT Project
In the fourth series of the MSB podcast, now rebranded as 'Interbeing', the focus returns to coaching and its values in supporting both self-reflection and cultivating generative relationships within educational environments. The term 'inter being,' coined by Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh, frames this season’s exploration of interconnectedness. Hosts Matt and Naomi introduce guest
A Keynote Conversation: Fostering Brave Spaces and Curiosity with Claire Pedrick
Welcome to the fourth series of the MSB podcast, now titled Interbeing. This season focuses on how coaching values can support school communities by encouraging inward reflection and outward, generative relationships. Inspired by Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s concept of 'inter-being', this series explores the interconnectedness of all things. We engage in conversations with coaches and ed
Pedagogy & Assessment Round Table
Many teachers want to make changes, but feel confined by the requirements of curricula and assessment. In this episode, our round table guests discuss their goals for the future of assessment, and how you can effect change even within the current system.Tia Court-Smith (she/her) - A love of learning and facilitating learning for all ages brought me to teaching later than many. Recipient of the Ted
Pedagogy & Assessment, with Angeline Aow
What are the structures that restrict change in education? How do we ensure that our students leave our schools with qualifications that reflect the breadth of their knowledge and skill? Our guest in this episode, Angeline Aow, has a wealth of experience in rethinking pedagogy and curriculum. She challenges our assumptions about what assessment can do and how teachers can use their own critical th
Ecological Domain Round Table
Saving the planet can seem a daunting and overwhelming task, so how do we communicate the scale of the problem with hope and excitement in our schools? In this episode, we’re joined by three educators to discuss the domain of ecology and nature with a futures focus.Kenny Peavey, originally from Georgia, USA, has over 23 years of experience teaching across Malaysia, Thailand, Singapore, and Indones
The Ecological Domain, with Noan Fesnoux
With the effects of climate change all around us, discussion of the future must involve ecological considerations, but our guest in this episode invites us to think beyond environmental concerns, and to treat education itself as ecology.In this discussion with Noan Fesnoux, we touch on reframing our expectations of consumption and our relationship with our environment, schools as metacognitive hub
Political Economy Round Table Discussion
How can we work with our students to understand their political and cultural identities in a world of constant change? In this episode, we’re joined by three educators to discuss the domain of political economy, identity, privilege and culture with a futures focus.Loretta Smith is an educator with more than 20 years of experience in international schools. She grew up between cultures, moving sever
The Domain of Political Economy, with Homa Tavanger
Many international schools are working hard on confronting issues of inequality, justice and global politics. Involving the wider school community can be challenging without a guide or a framework to follow. Our guest in this episode, Homa Tavanger, poses some thoughtful questions to start the conversation.In this wide-ranging discussion, we talk about student activism in the wake of the murder of
Technology Round Table Discussion
How are the opportunities and challenges that come with the future of technology being felt in schools? This episode, we’re joined by three educators, Rachael Thrash, Yasmine Aslam-Hashmi and Rory Douglas, to discuss futures focussed technology in education.Rachael Thrash is the CEO and Co-Founder of Belong Hub, student leadership kits and services that guide adults and students to collaboratively
The Technological Domain, with Tricia Friedman
For many, contemplation of the technological domain, the massive swift growth of generative AI, for example, comes with fear and trepidation. So we’re delighted to be joined today by Tricia Friedman, who brings calm, inspiration and fun to the challenge of imagining future technologies.In this conversation we talk about not just generative AI, but also cross species communication, mobile phone ban
Exploring Futures-Focused Leadership for International Schools, with Patrick Alexander
For our introduction to season 3, we’re delighted to be joined by Patrick Alexander from Oxford Brookes University. Over the summer we’ve been working with Patrick to research and create a new collaborative paper, Futures-Focused Leadership for International Schools.We intend this to be a provocation to leaders, to think differently about the future of education and their role in the creation of t
S2Ep13: How We Can Help Students To Become Global Citizens with Dee Lanier
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by Dee Lanier, Lead Learning Designer at Lanier Learning and Education Coach for Samsung Education. Award winning TEDX speaker and author of Demarginalising Design, Dee Lanier is dedicated to co-designing equitable learning experiences for school leaders, staff, and students, and helping s
S2Ep12: How To Just Be: Unfreezing Our Leadership Potential with Nicholas Janni
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by Nicholas Janni, renowned speaker, coach, and co-founder / programme director at Matrix Development. Nicholas is also the author of Business Book of the Year 2023 Leader as Healer, a new paradigm for 21st Century leadership - an unflinching call for leaders to leave the old paradigm and
S2Ep11: Nurturing The Cultural Richness Of International Schools with Shane Leaning
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by Shane Leaning, international school leadership and organisational development coach, and creator and host of the Global Ed Leaders podcast for leaders shaping education on a global scale. They discuss cultural differences in communication, decision making, authority and criticism; lesso
S2Ep10: Respect, Reflection, And Culturally Responsive Leadership with Ryan Persaud
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by Ryan Persaud, school leader at VERSO International School, a “school of the future” in Thailand. They discuss overcoming barriers and leading with courage, authenticity, and purpose; the importance of returning to the vision; and the power of mentorship.What is culturally responsive le
S2Ep9: How To Truly Listen: Nurturing A 'Thinking Environment' with Candice Smith
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Gill Kelly and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by Candice Smith, meeting & workshop facilitator, coach, and founder of The Thinking Field, through which she helps leaders to “create cultures of collaboration, inclusion, belonging and innovation.”They discuss the responsibility we have to acknowledging the influence of previous ge
S2Ep8: Creative & Connected Organisations: An Improv-able Approach with Stuart Reid
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Gill Kelly and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by Stuart Reid, founder and Executive Leadership Team Coach at Stuart Reid Consulting, through which he helps senior leaders overcome the challenges of their position. They discuss the importance of fun and laughter in creating organisational health; letting go and being open to playfulne
S2Ep7: The Growing Importance Of Prioritising Wellbeing In Schools with Matthew Savage (part 2)
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by Matthew Savage, speaker, trainer, coach, and founder of The Mona Lisa Effect®, through which Matthew explores the intersection between wellbeing and DEIJ in schools all around the world.In part 2 of their two-part series, they discuss the transformative effect of restorative practices,
S2Ep6: Data-Driven Wellbeing In Schools: How To Nurture DEIJ with Matthew Savage (part 1)
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by Matthew Savage, speaker, trainer, coach, and founder of The Mona Lisa Effect®, through which Matthew explores the intersection between wellbeing and DEIJ in schools all around the world.In part 1 of a fascinating and value-packed conversation, they discuss why data is a question and nev
S2Ep5: Empowering Young Voices: Faith, Peace & Feminism with St. Mary's School
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by experienced educator and Headmistress of St. Mary’s School in Cambridge, Charlotte Avery, as well as friends and colleagues Kate Latham, Director of Teaching and Learning, and Amina. They discuss the ideals at the heart of Mary Ward schools, the oft-overlooked importance of courage, jo
S2Ep4: How We Can Create Systemic Kindness with Sam Isaacson
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by author, consultant, and founder of Coachtech Collective, Sam Isaacson.They discuss the crucial attributes great leaders have and how these impact the organisations they lead, the importance of emotional intelligence and embracing our vulnerabilities, and how well-defined structures and
S2Ep3: Helping Young People Find Their Path With Kyra Kellawan
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by high-school educator, career counsellor, and co-founder of Kokoro Careers, Kyra Kellawan.They discuss the importance of embracing uniqueness and individuality in all students and why we need to recognise generational changes in both education and the workplace. How can we empower studen
S2Ep2: Language As A Catalyst with Pádraig O Tuama
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by renowned poet and theologian, Pádraig Ó Tuama.They're kicking off their exploration of systemic and organisational health from the perspective of a poet, discussing poetry as an unpredictable language event; the important secondary purpose of all organisations that should not be o
S2Ep1: An Introduction To Season 2: Organisational Health
Principled is back!Welcome to Season 2 of the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better introduce their mission statement for an exciting second season.This time, we're exploring organisational health. What does it mean to create healthy systems? And how can we overcome the challenges currently faced by leaders in education?With the help of some fanta
Ep 17: A Look Back on Season 1
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall, Naomi Ward and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better sit down to look back on a successful first season of Principled.They reflect on various lightbulb moments, including why belonging is not always a positive thing; the power of story, ritual and language; and why active listening is so important when trying to cultivate inclusive environm
Ep16: Belonging And The Human Experience with Owen Eastwood
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better talk to Owen Eastwood, performance coach and author of the Belonging: The Ancient Code Of Togetherness.They discuss various topics based around the theme of belonging, including: the impact belonging has on our hormones, the link between resilience and belonging, and why we have a responsibility to e
Ep15 ARCHIVE: Mel Ellis Leading Belong In An International School
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better revisit a popular episode from Season 1 of Principled. Episode 2 featured Mel Ellis, Head of the Dulwich College Senior School in Singapore.They discuss various topics based around the theme of belonging, including: why a sense of belonging is seen as an outcome rather than something to be consciousl
Ep14: Why Belonging Starts With The Self with Aisha Thomas
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better talk to Aisha Thomas, Founder & Director of Representation Matters, who has dedicated her career to transforming the lack of racial diversity in education.They discuss how creating belonging starts with the self; why the question "do I belong?" will always be prevalent until society rep
Ep13 ARCHIVE: Doug Lemov (Teach Like a Champion) Creating Belonging in the Classroom
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better revisit a popular episode from Season 1 of Principled. Episode 6 featured author Doug Lemov, chatting about various concepts arising from his book and online community, Teach Like A Champion.Doug's analytical approach to effective teaching made a lasting impact on the hosts. They discussed the i
Ep12: Building a Unique Philosophy with Brett Girven
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better talk to Brett Girven, Principal at The Arbor School, about their innovative approach to breaking free from the confines of traditional learning.They discuss how a collaborative relationship with teaching and nature can foster belonging in children; why ecosophy is so vital to the philosophy of the sc
Ep10: Global Belonging with d'Arcy Lunn
In this episode of the Principled podcast, Matt Hall and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better talk to d'Arcy Lunn about the essence of global belonging.They discuss why d'Arcy draws so much inspiration, energy, and optimism from young people; how a sense of global citizenship can foster belonging; and how teaspoons of change can transform our world and our education model for the better.---
Ep9: Midway Musings
In this episode, Matt Hall and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better have a discussion between themselves about certain aspects of belonging.They discuss various topics, including: why a sense of belonging isn't necessarily born out of a fear of loneliness; how it can be beneficial to know yourself before joining a tribe; and Matt shares a wonderful poem by Pádraig Ó Tuama.-----------------------
Ep8 Julie Rees - Belonging in the Curriculum
In this episode, Matt Hall and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better talk to Julie Rees about belonging within the curriculum.They discuss various topics based on the theme of belonging, including: - How to welcome new and transferring students quickly and effectively by allowing them their own space- Why making students feel safe enough to express themselves honestly can lead to great things- The imp
Ep7 Michael Cahill - Managing Endings
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better talk to author Michael Cahill from Coaching Constellations about how to best manage the exit process.They discuss various topics based around the theme of belonging, including: why managing endings is crucial, not just to those directly involved, but also to those remaining who may get a glimpse of t
Ep6: Doug Lemov (Teach Like a Champion) Creating Belonging in the Classroom
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better talk to author Doug Lemov about various concepts arising from his book and online community, Teach Like A Champion.They discuss various topics based around the theme of belonging, including: how the rise of smartphones and social media has led to an increase in anxiety and depression - and why makin
Ep5: Zahara Chowdhury: How Schools Should Be
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better talk to Founder of the School Should Be community, Zahara Chowdhury.They discuss various topics based around the theme of belonging, including: why leadership can be incredibly lonely, and the ways in which leaders can feel more connected; how to integrate new staff into a school in a more holistic w
Ep4: Peace Building in Schools with Roy Leighton
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better talk to author Roy Leighton.They discuss various topics based around the theme of belonging, including: why inclusion is so vital but belonging can potentially be dangerous - in a certain context; why he's always been fascinated by the work of Johan Galtung; and how safe, sacred spaces can be tr
Ep3: What Can A Folk Festival Teach Us about Belonging?
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better talk to Joe Heap, the Festival Director of the Towersey Festival.They discuss various topics based around the theme of belonging, including: why there is so much to learn about a sense of belonging from a long-running festival; the role that ancestry and history can potentially play in helping to fos
Ep2: Leading Belonging in an International School
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better talk to Mel Ellis.They discuss various topics based around the theme of belonging, including: the role a curriculum plays in fostering a sense of identity; how to handle the process of a teacher arriving and leaving in a holistic way; and how wider issues such as agency, context and geography can aff
Ep1: Introduction to Principled
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this welcome episode, Matt Hall, Naomi Ward and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better give a fascinating introduction into themselves and their mission to highlight what matters most in the world of educational leadership.Gill explains why being around people who have had a vastly different lived experience can be so mind expanding. Naomi describes why a sense of b
