The Systemic Way
The Systemic Way Podcast is a therapy and mental health podcast featuring conversations with experts, practitioners, researchers, and people with lived experience from the worlds of systemic psychotherapy, family therapy, psychology, social work, and community practice. Hosted by Sezer and Julie, two systemic and family psychotherapists, the podcast explores mental health, relationships, trauma, resilience, social justice, culture, and change. Through engaging discussions on theory, practice, and real-world experiences, listeners gain a deeper understanding of how systemic and relational approaches can support individuals, families, organisations, and communities.
Episodes
The Story Lived and Told: Abbie VanMeter on her Journey to CMM
What happens when we stop asking, “Who is right?” and start asking, “What are we making here?”In this episode of The Systemic Way, we are joined by Abbie VanMeter from the CMM Institute and host of the wonderful podcast Stories Lived and Stories Told for a wide-ranging and deeply engaging conversation about Coordinated Management of Meaning (CMM).The conversation explores Abbie's personal an
Neo-Liberalism, Mental Health and Resistance Within The Systems We Live In: In conversation with Mark Phillips
What happens when the systems designed to help us start shaping, limiting or even defining the problems we are trying to solve?In this episode of The Systemic Way, we are joined by Mark Phillips, a highly experienced systemic psychotherapist, mental health nurse and strategic leader who has worked across NHS, local authority and youth justice services for more than two decades. Mark is currently S
Team Of Life - The Collective Power of Narrative Therapy: With Vicky Eames and Mariangels Ferrer-Duch
Who are the people, past and present, who have helped you become who you are?In this episode of The Systemic Way, we explore Team of Life, a creative narrative practice developed from the Tree of Life approach. We speak with Mariangels Ferrer-Duch and Vicky Eames from Riverbank Psychology as we discuss how to help people reconnect with stories of strength, courage and belonging. This is a reflecti
Five Dimensions of Change: Relational-Mindfulness, Mantra and Meaning - A Buddhist-Systemic Approach with Kunsang Yang Yang
Join us for a thought-provoking episode as we sit down with Kunsang Yang Yang , a pioneering voice in the integration of Buddhist philosophy and systemic family therapy. Drawing from years of personal spiritual practice, professional experience, and the teachings of his root guru, H.H. Yisie Vorle (as featured in the book Path Beyond Samsara), Yang Yang explores how Buddhist concepts like mindfuln
From Bateson and Blake to Hugh Palmer: Fourfold Vision and the Art of Seeing Systemically
What does it mean to truly see in therapy? Not just to recognise a problem or follow a model, but to sense the subtle movements of relationship — the flicker of meaning between people, the quiet shifts that change the course of a conversation.In this episode, Dr. Hugh Palmer, systemic family psychotherapist, trainer and writer, invites us into the art of expanded vision. Drawing on Gregory Bateson
Families at the Heart of Education: The Pears Family School How systemic practice in specialist provision creates lasting change: With Laura Lower and Maya Bell Kohli
In this episode, we shine a spotlight on the Pears Family School, a pioneering Alternative Provision school in the UK that is redefining how we support children with complex emotional, behavioral, and mental health needs. Facing a national crisis in child mental health and a lack of joined-up services, the Pears Family School bridges the gap between education and mental health through a unique, sy
Reflexive Inquiry and Meaning-Making in Organisations: In conversation with Christine Oliver
In this episode, we are joined by pioneering systemic psychotherapist, organisational consultant, and author Christine Oliver for a rich conversation exploring systemic approaches to organisational life, leadership, and change.Drawing from over 30 years of experience across the NHS, charities, international organisations, faith communities, and private consultancy, Christine reflects on how system
From Modalities to Relational Meaning: A Systemic Turn in Integrative Counselling - With Rick Murphy and Lisa Dvorjetz.
In this episode of The Systemic Way, we speak with Rick Murphy and Lisa Dvorjetz about their book A Systemic Approach to Integrative Counselling (2024) and the growing need to bring relational thinking into everyday therapeutic practice.Together, we explore how familiar counselling models such as person-centred, psychodynamic, CBT, Gestalt, and action-based approaches can be reworked through syste
Inside EFTA-RELATES 2025: Challenging Indifference, Creating Connection, Shaping the Future of the Systemic Field
Celebrating our 100th episode of The Systemic Way Podcast.We took The Systemic Way to @EFTA-RELATES 2025 Congress in Lyon and stepped into a space shaped by change, tension, and possibility.Across four days, we spoke with therapists, researchers, and practitioners working at the edges of systemic practice. You hear their reflections, their challenges, and the moments that stayed with them. From co
Felt Sense Polyvagal Dialogue in Family Therapy: With Jan Winhall
In this episode of The Systemic Way, we sit down with renowned psychotherapist, author, and educator Jan Winhall to explore the transformative power of the Felt Sense Polyvagal Model (FSPM). With over four decades of clinical experience, Jan invites us into a radically compassionate, body‑based understanding of trauma, addiction, and healing.Together, we unpack how the body’s survival responses ar
Adolescence: Toxic Masculinity, Online Radicalisation, and Systemic Responsibility. Systemic Lens ep. 4.
In this episode, we’re turning our attention to the UK drama Adolescence — a series that begins with a single, shocking event but quickly reveals a much wider web of responsibility.Rather than focusing solely on the actions of one young person, the drama draws us into the interconnected systems surrounding him: family, school, peer culture, mental health services, and the criminal justice system.U
Once Upon A Time In Grandmotherland: Myths, Meanings and Cultural Discourses with Dr Judith Edwards
In Grandmotherland, Dr Judith Edwards offers an exploration of Grandmotherhood as an intergenerational, relational, and socially constructed position. Drawing on myth, fairy tales, family narratives, and contemporary lived experience, she examines how dominant cultural discourses shape expectations of grandmothers and organise family roles, boundaries, and power across generations. Judith attends
On Age-in-Therapy: In Conversation with Carole Hunt, Daniel Blake and Polly Kaiser of the DWP Age Group
In this episode of The Systemic Way, we talk about age in the room—listening for it not as decline, but as presence, memory, and becoming. Drawing inspiration from Maya Angelou’s On Aging, where she writes of being “old as the hills, and far from done,” we explore lifecycle transitions, working with older people, and how a therapist’s age is read, misread, and positioned in the therapeutic relatio
Why Dialogue Cures: In Conversation with Dr Jaako Seikkula
In this episode we speak with no other than Dr. Jaako Seikkula on this latest bookWhy Dialogue Does Cure: Explaining What Makes Dialogue Unprecedentedly Effective in Difficult Crises (2025). The book presents the core principles of Open Dialogue, a system of psychiatric care and dialogic psychotherapy that has spread to over 40 countries. Why Dialogue Does Cure explores the transformative power of
White Nanny, Black Child: Systems of Care, Silence and Survival - in conversation with Micheal Henry
In this episode, we reflect on the deeply moving documentary White Nanny, Black Child (2023), which explores Britain’s “farming” system — a practice through which over 70,000 West African children were fostered by white British families between 1955 and 1995.Through the voices of nine adults who reunite to share their experiences, the film opens up tender and painful reflections on identity, belon
Still We Listen - Where Whispers Move: Systemic Reverberations of Tracy Chapman's Music with DWP Race Group
In this very special episode we sit down with members of the DWP - Race Group (Shakira Nkanang, Calvin Malcom and John Burnham) as we turn our systemic lens on the iconic album by Tracy Chapman (Tracy Chapman 1988). We ask, how does Tracy Chapman's album provide a soundtrack for confronting race, power, and privilege in therapeutic practice? What do the anthems of our lives reveal about the
An Ocean of Meaning in Speech Melody: Accent, identity and Power in Therapy with Jordan Makmihe
In systemic psychotherapy we often focus on the words we use, but what about the sound of them? In this episode, we meet with systemic psychotherapist and social worker Jordan Makmihe to explore the subtle yet significant role of accent in therapeutic practice.Our conversation considers how the nuances of our speech—the melody, the rhythm, the inflection—carry unspoken stories about identity, belo
Reading as Reflexive and Mindful Practice: A Conversation with Desa Markovic
In this thought-provoking episode, we sit down with therapist, trainer, supervisor and author Desa Markovic to explore her compelling paper on the Aspects of Reading (2021) - a model that invites practitioners, students, and educators into a deeper, more layered relationship with texts.Desa guides us through a nuanced framework that separates and then interweaves four key reading positions: The Au
The Love Revolution: Soul, Soil & Society with Satish Kumar
In this inspiring and thought-provoking episode, we sit down with peace activist, former Jain monk, and ecological visionary Satish Kumar to explore the profound power of Radical Love—the focus of his latest book.Together, we dive into how love can be understood not just as a personal feeling, but as a systemic force capable of transforming families, communities, and entire societies. Satish share
"In the Nest of Relational Process" - Nora Bateson on Warm Data, Ecology of Connection, and The Systems That Shape Us
What if our biggest crises – from climate collapse to mental health – demand not simpler solutions, but a deeper embrace of complexity? Join us for a profound conversation with Nora Bateson, award-winning filmmaker, writer, and systems thinker.Nora takes us inside the rich ecology of ideas explored in her groundbreaking book, Combining. Nora challenges us to see the world as a web of inseparable r
EFTA - Systemic Therapy in A Changing World: Social justice, Research and Relational Ethics. In conversation with Umberta Telfener, President of EFTA, and Hans Christian Michaelsen, Vice President of EFTA
In this rich and wide-ranging conversation, we sit down with Umberta Telfener, President of EFTA, and Hans Christian Michaelsen, Vice President, to explore the heart of systemic practice across Europe.Together, they unpack what EFTA (European Family Therapy Association) is, how it’s structured, and what it offers to both long-standing members and curious newcomers. We hear about their personal jou
Liberating Systemic Values: How IFT’s Social Action is Redefining Training, Research, and Organisational Futures: In Conversation with Taiwo Afuape and Sumita Dutta
In this episode, we speak with Taiwo Afuape and Sumita Dutta, Co-Directors of the Institute of Family Therapy in London, to explore the rich history and bold new direction of one of the UK’s leading centres for systemic practice. Together, we reflect on IFT’s legacy, its role in shaping generations of family therapists, and how its current leadership is reimagining training and practice through a
The Wisdom of "Not Knowing" - Collaborative Dialogical Practice and Embracing Curiosity With Dr Harlene Anderson
Join us for an inspiring and thought-provoking interview with Dr. Harlene Anderson, a trailblazer in systemic psychotherapy and co-founder of the Collaborative-Dialogical Approach. In this deep dive, we explore her revolutionary ideas—from challenging traditional therapy hierarchies to redefining power, knowledge, and the role of language in healing. We’ll unpack: - The origins of her work—What
Sailing the 7 C's of Systemic Practice in Primary Healthcare Settings: In conversation with Dr John Launer
Join us in this insightful episode as we sit down with Dr. John Launer, a retired GP, family therapist, and pioneer in integrating systemic and narrative approaches into healthcare. Dr. Launer shares his journey from general practice to becoming a leading figure in training healthcare professionals to use therapeutic conversations in their everyday work.Discover the transformative power of Convers
"Thinking Theory, Talking Ordinary": John Burnham on his Approaches, Methods and Techniques to Therapy, Supervision and Training.
Join us for an inspiring and personal conversation with John Burnham, a true trailblazer in systemic psychotherapy and a visionary in the field of family therapy. With a career spanning over five decades, John has dedicated his life to transforming the way we understand and approach mental health, particularly in the context of eating disorders and family dynamics.In this insightful podcast episod
Opening Doors for Open Dialogues in the UK: In conversation with Nick Putman
In this episode, we sit down with Nick Putman, founder of Open Dialogue UK and a leading force in adapting the Open Dialogue approach to the UK. As a UKCP registered psychotherapist and certified Open Dialogue practitioner and trainer, Nick shares his journey of learning directly from pioneers like Jaakko Seikkula and Jorma Ahonen, and how he has worked to bring this revolutionary approach to the
Neurodiversity, Systemic Practice, and Reflections – Hayaa’ Network Conference 2024
In this episode, we’re joined by attendees from the Hayaa’ Network’s groundbreaking conference on neurodiversity, held in Singapore in February 2024. Together, we reflect on the latest advancements in practice, research, and theory in this rapidly evolving area of mental health, all through a systemic lens. Featuring insights from keynote speakers Dr. Marwa Azab, Ms. Nora Bateson, Ms. Maimunah Mos
The Divided Island - Film as Systemic Intervention: In conversation with filmmakers Cey Sesiguzel, Andreas Tokkallos and guest co-host Dr Emilios Lemoniatis.
Join us for a compelling exploration of, The Divided Island, a groundbreaking documentary film that delves into the complex history, identity, and shared humanity of Cyprus. In this episode, we sit down with the film’s creators - director Cey Sesiguzel (Turkish Cypriot) and co-producer Andreas Tokkallos (Greek Cypriot) - as they reflect on their journey of collaboration and friendship, the stories
Songs of Hope and Change: David Denborough - a journey with the communities of Narrative Therapy
In this episode, we sit down with David Denborough, a leading figure in narrative therapy and community work, to explore the fascinating journey that brought him to this transformative approach. David shares the early influences that connected his values and beliefs with narrative ideas, offering insight into the foundational stories that shaped his practice.We dive into his relationship with the
Race, Power, Privilege and the Psychology of Otherness: With Dr Dwight Turner
In this episode with speak with Dr Dwight Turner who shares his thoughts, ideas and reflections on his two books Intersections of privilege and otherness in counselling and psychotherapy: Mockingbird (2021) and The Psychology of Supremacy: Imperium (2023). Dwight shares his personal stories around his early life, career and training as a psychotherapist weaving through themes of race, power, inter
Race As The Highest Context Marker: In conversation with AFT's DWP Race Group
In this episode we are joined by the Association for Family Therapy (AFT)'s Diversity Working Party (DWP) - Race Group. The group share their experiences of meeting and working together and their ongoing commitment to bring race to the forefront of our practice. The members talk about the complexity of grappling with this. Alongside this, they share the energy, passion and playfulness with wh
The Estranged Energy Cycle: Understanding Ruptured Mother-Daughter Relationships with Khara Croswaite Brindle
In this episode we talk with Khara Croswaite Brindle about her book Understanding Ruptured Mother-Daughter Relationships.We hear about how therapists can prepare to address ruptured mother daughter relationships in a therapeutic space. Whether it is repairing the estrangement or preparing for it, Khara takes us through the cycle of estrangement and offers tools to manage the different stages. We f
A Tale of Three Sisters: A Movie Analysis from Critically Informed Family Therapy Perspective with Ozlem Kose PhD
In this episode we are joined by Ozlem Kose PhD to discuss an article she co-wrote with Fatma Arıcı-Şahin & Ahmet Abakay, A Tale of Three Sisters: A Movie Analysis from Critically Informed Family Therapy Perspective. Journal of Feminist Family Therapy, 33(4), 315-329 (Kose et al 2019).Özlem Köse, an associate with Couple and Family Therapy Montreal, holds a Ph.D. in medical family therapy and
Addressing Race Based Trauma! With Dr. Jamila Holcomb
Dr Jamila Holcomb is a marriage and family therapist and supervisior in Florida joins us to discuss racial trauma. Given the current climate and the ongoing wrestle with racism and its impact on communities and individuals this episode offers essential tools for anti racist practice.Jamila takes us through the important area of racial trauma in clinical settings. We hear her talk about defining ra
AI, Web3, The Metaverse and Intersections with Mental Health: With Marianne Le Coyte Grinney
In this episode we speak with Marianne Le Coyte Grinney about mental health and tech. Marianne is the founder of Held Mind an organisation that offers training, support and consultation on mental health, sobriety and recovery on platforms such as web 3 and discord. She takes us through her personal and professional journey with the world of tech and the need to understand this world and why mental
Systemic Lens Ep 3: Unpacking the Magic: A Systemic Analysis of Disney's Encanto
In this episode of The Systemic Lens, we delve into the enchanting world of Disney's "Encanto" through the lens of systemic psychotherapy. Join us as we explore the complex dynamics of the Madrigal family, analysing how intergenerational trauma, familial roles, and cultural expectations shape their magical and emotional experiences. We examine the dual nature of the family's gi
Beyond Single Stories of Trauma to Narratives of Survival and Strength: With Nsimire Aimee Bisimwa
Nsimire Aimee Bisimwa is a Highly Specialist Systemic & Family Psychotherapist, course lead & lecturer at Essex University & Tavistock Centre and visiting lecturer at University College London. Our home is the theme for Refugee Week in 2024. In this special episode, we are dedicating our discussion to exploring and highlighting the crucial work being done to support refugees and young
Critical Realism and The Philosophy of Open Systems: In Conversation with David Pocock.
David Pocock , Systemic Family Psychotherapist, Psychoanalytic Psychotherapist, author and lecturer, joins us to discuss his influential paper, "A Philosophy of Practice for Systemic Psychotherapy: The Case for Critical Realism." (2015) In this session, we revisit the paper almost ten years after its initial publication to examine its enduring themes and its significant contribution to t
Systemic Interventions/Psychotherapy - Two Sides of the Same Coin?: With Umberta Telfener
In this episode we are joined by EFTA President, Umberta Telfener, as she shares with us her legacy and connection to the development of the systemic field. She talks about her relationships with some of the pioneers in Systemic Family Therapy across the globe. We hear her passionate views on combining systemic interventions and psychotherapy as we explore the integral relationship between them. U
Collective Care, "Sumud" and Resistance: With Dr. Yoa'd Ghanadry-Hakim
In today's episode we have the privilege to speak with Dr. Yoa'd Ghanadry-Hakim who is a clinical psychologist, human rights activist and supervisor and has been active in the field of mental health in Palestine for 25 years. Dr Yoa’d joins us to talk about her experiences of working in Palestine and generously shares her professional journey and the many factors that have contributed
Gender, Sexuality and Adventures Beyond the Binary: In conversation with Amanda Middleton
Amanda Middleton joins us to talk in depth about her keynote speech/article, Adventures in time, gender and therapeutic practice. Embracing a queer systemic way of working with gender expansive families. Amanda shares with us ways to understand gender and sexuality that are away from binary discourses and we discuss why this matters for inclusive therapeutic practice. She takes us on an adventure
Social Constructionism - Origins, Development and Future in Systemic Practice: With Kenneth J. Gergen Ph.D
This episode focuses on social constructionism with one of the leading figures in the field, Kenneth J. Gergen Ph.D. We hear about how radical the ideas were at the time of its conceptiopn and the people who believed in its contribution to psychology and supported its evolution. Ken tells us his personal and professional stories of the history and development of his key ideas within social constru
Integrative Systemic Practice: A Contemporary Framework with Dr Kate Owen and Dr Leonie White
In this episode we discuss the Queensland Institute of Family Therapy's (QIFT) meta framework for integrative practice. Founders, Kate and Leonie talk about how practitioners are embracing and integrative approach and their experience of developing the framework. Topics covered include:The main elements of the framework How integrative differs from traditional approaches in family therapy Wha
Trauma, Resilience and Culture - Systemic Work with Refugee Couples and Families: Dr Shadi Shahnavaz
This episode is about Shadi Shahnavaz’s insightful book “Working systematically with refugee families and couples: exploring trauma, resilience and culture” We discuss areas such as:-Effects of trauma-Seeking therapeutic help-Cross cultural therapy-Refugees lived experiences-Frameworks for engaging & supporting families and couplesShadi guides us through her personal and professional journey o
Becoming and Being: Harry Aponte On The Person Of The Therapist
In this episode we speak with the much respect Dr Harry Aponte about his career, contributions and process of becoming and being a therapist. He shares with us stories oh how he became interested in systemic practice and his early days in structural systemic family therapy. We take a deep dive with Harry as he discussed the key ideas that informs his approach, the important people who have helped
Future Directions of JFT and Why Research Matters: In Conversation with Dr Sarah Helps
Editor of The Journal of Family Therapy (JFT), Sarah Helps joins us to discuss the history, contribution & value of JFT. Sarah shares her passion for research and its important role in the systemic field. She shows how research can support practice through developing knowledge and deepen our understanding of process. She talks us through how to get involved with the journal and debunks fear o
An Odyssey into Second Order Competencies: With Laura Fruggeri and Francesca Balestra
In this episode we meet Francesca Balestra and Laura Fruggeri, two of the authors of the book Psychotherapeutic competencies: Techniques, relationships, and epistemology in systemic practice (2002). We have the opportunity to hear about the importance and value of competencies through the exploration of technical, relational, epsitimolgical and social aspects of competencies. The episode covers:
Culture, Emotions and the Relationships Between: In Conversation with Batja Mesquita
Batja Mesquita, social psychologist, affective scientist, and pioneer of cultural psychology joins us to talk about her wonderful book Between Us: How Cultures Create Emotions (2022).In this episodes, we dive deep into the key ideas within the book and discuss the interplay with systemic ideas. Batja invites us to reconsider emotions as universal responses and takes an outside/in perspective on h
Cultivating Belonging: A Systemic Exploration of Third Culture Kid's (TCK's): In Conversation with Dr. Ruth van Reken
In this episode, we speak with Dr. Ruth Van Reken who is the co-authour of Third Culture Kids: Growing Up Among Worlds, 3rd ed., and author of Letters Never Sent. We explore Third Culture Kids (TCKs)—which refers to people raised in cultures different from their parents’ and who spent formative years in diverse environments. We delve into the psychological, social, and relational impacts, address
Talking Identity and Creating Spaces for Authentic Selves: In conversation with Hendrix Hammond
In this episode we talk with Hendrix Hammond about identity, the use of self, positioning and emotions in the therapeutic and organisational contexts. We expand on his AFT 2022 keynote speech where Hendrix shares his own journey and how this has informed him and is present in his values and ways of working in practice. Hendrix Hammond bio:Hendrix is a Consultant Couple & Family Psychotherapist
Making Every Session Count: The Philosophy and Practice of Single Session Therapy with Katy Stephenson, Flavio Cannistra and Jeff Young
In this episode we talk with Flavio Cannistra, Jeff Young and Katy Stephenson all about Single Session Therapy (SST). They share their professional experience and lived examples of the approach in action. We are introduced to the philosophy, key principles, benefits, challenges and ethics of SST and get an insight to how it can transform practice, systems and how services are delivered. Guests:Je
"Practice Based Evidence Based Practice" - Therapy as Collaborative Learning: With Robert van Hennik
In this episode we meet with Robert van Hennik to discuss his professional doctorate titled: Practice Based Evidence Based Practice: Navigating Complexity in Feedback-informed Systemic Therapy. Robert brings his ideas alive by talking us through his approach in a practical way. He eloquently shares how the theory is woven into practice through collaborative work with the systems, families, instit
Opening Doors to Stories of Home - EMOTH (Emotional Map of the Home) with Dr. Viola Sallay and Dr. Tamás Martos
In this episode we speak with Dr. Viola Sallay and Dr. Tamás Martos about EMOTH a therapeutic tool they have created to support therapist in nurturing new ways of having conversations with families. They share the development, application and case examples allowing us to fully experience the possibilities of EMOTH. This expansive tool finds creative ways to bring home into the therapeutic space as
Building Bridges: A Reflective Conversation from AFT Symposium #weareaft
This episode is a reflective conversation bout the recent AFT symposium "Building Bridges" which took place in Birmingham in July 2023. We are joined by Jennifer Achan, Anokh Goodman, Sybil Qasir and Judy Sutton who share their experiences of the day from their personal and professional positions. If you were unable to make it in person then we hope this gives you a flavour of the day an
Diversity, Solidarity and Systemic Change: Talking Diversity Working Party's (DWP) with Parveen Kaur and Amy Urry
In this episode Parveen Kaur & Amy Urry join us to discuss an initiative by AFT to openly and collaboratively work with members on issues of diversity. They share the intentions of creating the DWPs, provide insights on what they are about and details on how to join.Parveen Kaur works as a Family & Systemic Psychotherapist in Community CAMHS for Midlands Partnership NHS Foundation Trust.
Re-embracing the Spirt of Adventure: Pedagogy, Stories and Contemporary Narrative Practice with Dr Travis Heath
In this episode we talk with Dr Travis Heath and discuss the book “Reimagining Narrative Therapy Through Practice Stories and Autoethnography by Travis Heath, Tom Carlson and David Epston.The heart of the book is a re embracing of the spirits of narrative practice through the teaching and learning of this approach. Travis invites us to explore the essence of the model through autoethnography, prac
The Therapeutic Alliance - Collaboration, feedback and the use of questionnaires. In conversation with Peter Rober.
Peter Rober returns onto the podcast to talk in detail about his JFT award winning paper ‘One step up, but not there yet’: using client feedback to optimise the therapeutic alliance in family therapy, where he and his co-authours talk about the integral role of collaboration and therapeutic alliance in achieving positive outcomes in therapy. In this episode Peter talks to us about the feedback ins
Reclaiming Attachment Theory and the Interplay Between Neuroscience, Developmental Psychology and Systemic Thinking: In conversation with Graham Music
In this episode we meet with Graham Music, Consultant Child Psychotherapist and former Associate Clinical Director at the Tavistock Clinic in London. We discuss his career, his books as we dive into his ideas on the interplay between systemic thinking, attachment theory, developmental psychology and the new frontiers of neuroscience. We discussed this paper as a focus for the conversation:Music, G
Systemic Lens Ep.2: Everything Everywhere All At Once: Exploring tales on intergenerational trauma, migration, meaning making and navigating the space and world's between
Welcome to The Systemic Lens - our podcast where we geek out on systemic ideas and apply them to films, music, literature and pop culture. In this episode we take on the magnificent film, Everything Everywhere All At Once.Enjoy!
Centering Social Justice in Practice: Vikki Reynolds talks on solidarity, activism and community.
In this episode we speak with the ever inspiring Vikki Reynolds Phd who talks with us about her ongoing work and process of social justice, direct action and activism. Vikki shares personal and professional insights on her commitment to justice doing, decolonisation and living and working in an ethical way. We hear her dedication to addressing inequality, power structures and discrimination throu
Attachment Narratives and the Art of Therapeutic Playfulness: In conversation with Sabine Vermeire
In this episode we speak with systemic and narrative psychotherapist, Sabine Vermeire who discusses in detail her approach to working with children, young people and their families and carers using an attachment narrative approach to nurture belonging and open up therapeutic possibilities. We discuss Sabine's wonderful paper "No child is an island: from attachment narratives towards a
Research, Evidence, Practice: A Decade Review of Effective Systemic Interventions with Dr Andrea Wittenborn and Dr Kendal Holtrop
In this episode we focus on the special issue in the Journal of Marital and Family Therapy (JMFT) which reviews the efficacy and effectiveness of couple and family therapy from the last decade. We speak with editors of the review Dr Andrea Wittenborn and Dr Kendal Holtrop who share their process and insights into collaborating on the reviews creation, the value of research in family therapy and us
Interventions for Working with Separated Parents in Conflict: With Kam Kaur and Claire Field from The Parenting Apart Programme
In this episode we speak with Kam Kaur (senior social worker/systemic practitioner) and Claire Field (social care consultant and managing director) as they share with us details of The Parenting Apart Programme. We hear about their personal and professional connections in developing the programme and in working with separated parents in conflict. They share their wisdom and experience of how to s
History and Development of Family Therapy at the Tavistock Clinic: Working from the Margins with Charlotte Burck
In this episode we talk to systemic psychotherapist, consultant and filmmaker Charlotte Burck about her inspiration and process of making this personal film about the development of systemic family psychotherapy at the Tavistock Clinic, UK. Charlotte shares professional and personal stories about this unique time and the joys and challenges of bringing this story to film. The film Working from th
CMM with Vernon Cronen: A life in communications and meaning making.
In this episode Professor Vernon Cronen shares his journey in developing CMM. Professor Cronen talks about his relationship with Barnet Pearce, introducing the ideas in the UK and the current developments of CMM theory and practice. Vernon weaves his experiences with stories from his life giving us a colourful and intricate walk through his relationship with CMM. Prof. Vernon Cronen has been a mem
Just Therapy - sacred stories, belonging and social justice as guides for liberating practice: In conversation with Carol Halliwell
In this episode we meet with Consultant systemic psychotherapist Carol Halliwell as she shares her personal and professional connections with the Just Therapy team at the Family Centre in New Zealand.We explore the Just Therapy approach and hear how the guiding principles that underpin their work has influenced and guided Carol's practice for over 20 years.
Using Genograms: A Systemic Therapeutic Tool. In conversation with Monica McGoldrick
In this episode we meet with the one and only Monica McGoldrick as she takes us through her career and journey in using family genograms in her clinical work. We hear how Monica has developed her ideas throughout the years and the use of symbols, patterns and the importance of exploring life cycles. This is a unique opportunity of hearing a master therapist share her insights into the application
The Mother & Daughter Puzzle - Attachment, history mapping and the impact of societal and generational stories: In conversation with Rosjke Hasseldine
In this episode we discuss the mother and daughter relationship with Rosjke Hasseldine. Rosjke has spent almost 30 years working therapeutically with mothers and daughters and researching the factors that contribute to the complexity of this relationship. Rosjke has trained over1000 therapists and coaches from 20 different countries in her Mother-Daughter Attachment training.In this conversation
Systemic Supervision: Improvisation, Creativity and the use of Metaphors with Karen Partridge
In this episode we talk with systemic psychotherapist, supervisor and trainer Karen Partridge about the role of creativity and improvisation in systemic supervision. Karen takes us on a journey of metaphors through "swampy lowlands", "constructive awkwardness", "positioning compass" and her "rememberall".Karen shares her ideas of connecting to our creative s
AFT conference 2022 - Reflections, appreciations and resonances - Old Wisdoms and New Truths.
Welcome back after a short summer break.In this episode we reflect on the wonderful AFT 2022 Conference entitled: Transgenerational stories of hope across cultures; old wisdoms and new truths which was host by the West Yorkshire AFT at the Queens Hotel in Leeds.We share our reflections, highlights and the experience of the conference and also speak to attendees, presenters and organisers about the
Stories Lived and Stories Told: Discussing the legacy and documentary film of the KCC
In this episode we meet with the filmmakers of the documentary film "KCC Stories Lived and Stories Told" which was premiered at the AFT conference 2021. We meet with the creators, Rick Murphy, Helen Mahaffey, Ayesha Aslam, Mark Chidgey and Karen Partridge as they share their reflections on key moments from the film, their thoughts on making the film and their memories of the KCC and wha
Discovering The Mythical Land of Ireland's Fifth Province - With Dr Imelda McCarthy
Dr Imelda McCarthy PhD. joins us to share the story, development and practice of the Fifth Province. Imelda talk with us about how the Fifth Province evolved within the context of Ireland, the wider systemic community and the connections it has with spirituality. She gives us examples of using the myth in practice and how the model invites space into the therapy room. We also hear about thematic
The Systemic Lens Episode 1: The Wizard of Oz and Systemic Stories of Gender, Power and the Discovery of Self Through Relational Means
Introducing our new podcast adventure - The Systemic Lens. We are a group of systemic therapist with a love for film, TV, music, literature and theatre and will be using systemic theory to share our reflections, thoughts and resonances on some our our favourites. Through these podcast we hope to expand the bounds of systemic application and offer alternative forms of analysis to film, TV, Music, l
The 1.5 Order Position: An exploration of "knowing" and "not-knowing" in therapy with Ged Smith.
In this episode we talk with Dr Ged Smith about his ideas on taking a 1.5 order position in therapy. Ged introduces us to the meaning of the 1.5 order position and shows us ways to operate within and between first and second order positions from his own experience. In this podcast we discuss the therapeutic conundrums and tensions between the therapists position as expert and collaborator; having
Nick Pendry on Embedding Conversations about Race and Racism into our Everyday Practice.
Nick Pendry is a social worker and family therapist. He is currently employed as the deputy director of children's services at the London Borough of Wandsworth. He identifies as a Brown-Indian man. Nick has worked in various roles in the NHS and local authority children’s services. He is particularly interested in embedding systemic ideas and practices into children’s social care and in the c
Inga-Britt Krause on the Complexity of Teaching Race and Equity
In this episode we hear about Inga-Britt Krause's professional life with a focus on race and equity - the importance of teaching it and the nuances that need to be held in mind. The conversation is framed around her paper "Can we teach race and equity? (2022)" and we hope it invites a lens of curiosity and reflection on where we are at with race and equity as a systemic community.In
Becoming Your Best Therapeutic Self: In Conversation with Dr Victor Yalom
Dr Victor Yalom, founder of Psychotherapy.net joins the Systemic Way in a conversation about developing your best therapeutic self. We hear about his experiences of becoming a therapist, creating Psychotherapy.net and also tips on developing a more dynamic, authentic self so that you can better connect with and support your clients along their therapeutic journey. Being self-aware, comfortable sit
Applying Systemic Concepts to Politics: In conversation with Gwyn Daniel
In this episode, Julie and Sezer speak with Gwyn Daniel about her connection to politics and systemic thinking and how she navigates the two in the systemic community. Gwyn talks about gender, power, class and geography in this rich and insightful episode.Gwyn Daniel is a Systemic Family Therapist, Trainer, Clinical Supervisor and co-founder of the Oxford Family Institute. She has authored or co-
Contextual Equine Therapy - The Experiential Power of Bringing Together Horses, Families and Therapy: In conversation with Hesther Selbeck
In this episode we explore the personal and professional journey of Hesther Selbeck, a Dutch Systemic Psychotherapist and developer of Contextual Equine Therapy. Hesther takes us on a ride through the development, theory and practice that underpins her model. Contextual Equine Therapy is a form of systemic therapy in which horses are used as co-therapists. The interaction with the horses provides
COURRAGE - Healing Communities with Narrative Therapy: An interview with Ncazelo Ncube-Mlilo
In this episode we are honoured to speak with Ncazelo Ncube-Mlilo, where we discuss her work with a focus on the COURRAGE approach that she has developed with women who have experienced trauma. COURRAGE is a collective narrative way of working that privileges the alternative stories of women who have faced significant hardships. It honours the strengths, skills and courage women show and use in t
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