Political Thinking with Nick Robinson
Nick Robinson talks to people who shape our political thinking about what shaped theirs. Each episode features an in-depth conversation with someone who is shaping our politics, including politicians, campaigners, business and union leaders, and international figures. The interviews are extended and relaxed, delving into their past and how it shaped their worldview. New episodes drop on Fridays on BBC Sounds, and are also available on BBC Two and BBC Radio 4.
Episodes
We've got a plan: Louise Haigh on her journey back to power
The former Transport Secretary, sidelined by Keir Starmer, reveals she's been working with Burnham on a plan for government for at least a year, and has already seen the prospective Prime Minister make tough decisions. Also - bringing hope back to politics, navigating an exotic bird auction, and playing football in the House of Commons chamber. Recorded in front of a live audience at the Crossed W
The Treasury was in denial: John Healey on why he resigned as defence secretary
In his first interview since resigning from Keir Starmer's government, the former Defence Secretary John Healey talks about the threats we face, his hopes for a Burnham government, and why he thinks the Treasury is in denial.Producer: Hannah Wilkinson
What went wrong for Starmer: Morgan McSweeney gives his side of the story
In his first ever interview, the Prime Minister's former Chief of Staff Morgan McSweeney lifts the lid on winning power, dealing with Trump, and how project Starmer fell apart.Producer: Hannah Wilkinson.
'A bad start even before he starts' - Welsh First Minister on why trouble's brewing with Burnham
The new First Minister of Wales Rhun ap Iorwerth on what Wales really wants, why Reform surged in the Senedd election, and how working as a nightclub bouncer will help him deal with Andy Burnham.
From Downing Street... to California Governor? Former Tory adviser Steve Hilton on making the Golden State great again
Former Tory adviser and candidate for California Governor Steve Hilton on the frustrations that drove his political journey and why he believes the Golden State can turn red.
'We need some daydreaming': lawyer Theodor Meron on surviving the Holocaust, and issuing Netanyahu’s arrest warrant
International lawyer and judge Theodor Meron on issuing Netanyahu’s arrest warrant, and how daydreaming helped him to survive the Holocaust.This episode has been subject to a Corrections and Clarifications note:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/helpandfeedback/corrections_clarifications
Why Starmer will survive: The Attorney General on human rights, small boats, and his ‘dogged’ friend the Prime Minister
The Attorney General Richard Hermer speaks to Nick about small boats, his most controversial cases, and why his old friend Keir Starmer can survive a leadership challenge.
“Inequalities don’t happen by accident” Dr Mary-Ann Stephenson on trans rights, Islamophobia, and why equality still matters
Chair of the equalities watchdog, Dr Mary-Ann Stephenson, on sex and gender, the right to protest, and doing one of the hardest jobs in Britain.
'What the hell are we doing?' Wes Streeting on his promise to young people, resigning from government, and wanting to be PM
Labour leadership contender and former health secretary Wes Streeting on what prompted his resignation, the challenges of being a working class politician, and his wealth tax plan.
Why the PM has to go: Miatta Fahnbulleh on being the first minister to break with Starmer
The former Communities Minister Miatta Fahnbulleh, who was the first Minister to resign from Keir Starmer's government after the elections, discusses reaching breaking point, who should lead Labour now, and why she's terrified of where politics is going.She also talks about her experience as a civil servant working with Conservative Ministers, and why her children are her toughest critics.Senior P
'It's been a whirlwind': Zack Polanski on storytelling, Zionism and Zackonomics
Few people have done more to shape politics in recent months than the Green Party Leader in England and Wales, Zack Polanski. In his Political Thinking debut, he tells Nick Robinson about his 'whirlwind' journey since becoming leader, saying that becoming PM is now 'in his mind' .
He talks about his upbringing and Jewish identity and why he has now become a prominent critic of Israel. He explains
From Sky boss to Number 10: Shadow Business Secretary Andrew Griffith
Andrew Griffith on why government sometimes has to say 'no' and why Rupert Murdoch was the "best boss".The Shadow Business Secretary was once the youngest Chief Financial Officer of any major British company, when he worked at Sky, before becoming an MP an joining Boris Johnson's team in Downing Street. Senior Producer: Daniel Kraemer
Producer: Flora Murray
Editor: Giles Edwards
'We cannot have chaos': Emily Thornberry on the law of war and Labour's struggles
The Foreign Affairs Committee Chair on Iran, Trump's 'asteroid of awfulness' and the 'grief' she felt after being dropped by Starmer.Emily Thornberry tells Nick about how her father's career as a UN peacekeeper helped shape her commitment to the ideals of international law.She also has frank views about what her party needs to do to stem the rise of the Green Party.Senior Producer: Daniel Kraemer
'This is Iran's Berlin Wall moment': Omid Djalili, comedian and actor
The British-Iranian comic on revolutions, Kensington, 9/11 jokes, King Charles and Iran's future.Omid Djalili has become one of the loudest voices in the Iranian diaspora calling for the overthrow of the regime in Tehran, in favour of US military action.While the world waits for Trump's next steps, Djalili talks to Nick about growing up in a hub of London's Iranian community, chasing history from
'We're appeasing the tech bros': Beeban Kidron, from film-maker to lawmaker
What links Bridget Jones to social media regulation?The answer: Baroness Beeban Kidron. In 2004 she directed the Bridget Jones sequal. 20 years later, she became one of the most vocal campaigners for regulation of social media and tech in the UK.She joins Nick in the Political Thinking studio to tell her story, from joining Marxist dinner parties in her childhood home, to filming and living with t
Nigel Farage: 'Broken Britain', national identity and lessons from Trump
A frank conversation with the leader of Reform UK.Nigel Farage has put his party on a "general election war footing" and says he is preparing for power.What has his party still got to learn before they're ready? Who is he referring to when he talks about putting "our own people first"?And what made him change his mind and return to politics?Senior Producer: Daniel Kraemer
Producer: Flora Murray
Ed
How to tell England’s story: James Graham, playwright
James Graham joined Nick in the political thinking studio in late January, ahead of a this year's TV adaptation of his play Dear England.What did Gareth Southgate get right about national identity?What advice does the playwright have for Keir Starmer on storytelling?And why is it important that people continue to go to the theatre?Senior Producer: Daniel Kraemer
Producer: Flora Murray
Sound: Ged S
Vitali Klitschko, Mayor of Kyiv: From boxing to politics
How did the world heavyweight champion end up running a city of 3 million people in wartime?Vitali Klitschko joins Nick from the Ukrainian capital in the midst of a Russian campaign to descimate the city's energy infrastructure.He talks about what peace could look like, the lessons he learned from living under Soviet rule as a child, and why he decided to abandon a lucrative life in the US to ente
David Lammy: The old world order isn't coming back
What happens when US Vice President Vance goes drinking with Angela Rayner & David Lammy?The Deputy Prime Minister and Justice Secretary knows America better than probably anyone else around the cabinet table. And in this interview he reflects at length on the state of the world and the significance of the US president's Greenland threats.David Lammy gives an impassioned defence against critic
The union leader who agrees with the Tory leader: Daniel Kebede
The National Education Union's general secretary on banning social media, strikes and raceDaniel Kebede says he is "completely aligned" with Kemi Badenoch on social media policy but warns that the Labour government is on a "collision course" with teachers over pay and conditions. Why does a former minister describe him as "disarming" while the press brand him as "militant" and a "hardened proteste
John Swinney: Trump, Independence and Scottish Troops in Ukraine
What is the Scottish First Minister's secret for getting Donald Trump's attention?Nick is in Edinburgh to sit down with John Swinney, at the start of a year of big elections across the UK, including for the Scottish Parliament.He has been at the top of SNP-led government's for almost all of the last 19 years. He is now asking for another five years, with the hope of securing a new independence ref
Jordan Bardella: The 30-year-old populist hoping to be France's next president
An exclusive interview on immigration, racism, Russia, Farage and Trump.Jordan Bardella is the leader of National Rally in France, and currently leading the polls to become president in 2027 if his mentor, Marine Le Pen fails to overturn a conviction that bars her from running for office. In the meantime, he is on a mission to persuade people that his party has changed since its history as the Nat
Kemi Badenoch: Shooting from the hip
Why did the leader of the opposition call the chancellor 'spineless' and 'shameless'?Kemi Badenoch joins Nick in the Political Thinking studio to reflect on what lay behind the personal and political debates around Budget Day.How can she emulate Margaret Thatcher's regeneration of the Conservative Party?How did anger help drive her into politics? And why do her kids wish she still worked at McDona
Shabana Mahmood: Racism, Asylum and Me
Why is the Home Secretary warning against leaving space for "darker forces"?Shabana Mahmood sits down with Nick off the back of announcing sweeping changes to the asylum system in the UK.Why did she decide to quote explicit racial abuse in the House of Commons? And how does she intend to avoid "ceding the territory of asylum to the far right"?The Home Secretary reflects on how her Muslim faith pla
'I'm preparing for government': Plaid Cymru leader Rhun ap Iorwerth
Can Plaid Cymru replace Labour as the party of power in Wales next year? Rhun ap Iorwerth, the party's leader, thinks so. Rhun ap Iorwerth joins Nick in the Political Thinking studio to talk about how his parents' passion for Welsh heritage and language formed the basis for his vision for the country. They explore Welsh identity and the anti-monarchy spirit that inspired the name of his teenage ba
'I like it when people underestimate me': Lib Dem leader Ed Davey
Ed Davey warns Starmer against handing Reform UK 'the keys into 10 Downing Street'Producer: Daniel Kraemer
Research: Chloe Desave
Sound: Ged Sudlow and Andrew Mills
Editor: Giles Edwards
Life after Labour: Zarah Sultana on Palestine, Farage and 'Your Party'
How a trip to the West Bank in her teens set the Coventry MP on a path into politics.Zarah Sultana joins Nick in the studio a few weeks before the launch of her new party with Jeremy Corbyn.In the interview, they discuss her positions on NATO, the state of Israel, seeking power, and why she likened her relationship with Corbyn to the Gallagher brothers.Producer: Daniel Kraemer
Research: Chloe Desa
Gaza, Trump and me: UN humanitarian chief Tom Fletcher
Driving through Gaza is like "driving through the ruins of Hiroshima, or Stalingrad, or Dresden"Tom Fletcher has been the United Nations humanitarian chief for almost a year and speaks to Nick two weeks into his organisation's efforts to get as much aid as possible into the Gaza Strip.He gives a behind-the-scenes account of how he works with the Trump White House and how the ceasefire deal was str
Net Zero has become a religion: Claire Coutinho on climate, identity and cooking
The Shadow Energy Minister has transformed her party's approach to climate policy.In this extended conversation, Claire Coutinho sets out what changed her mind on net zero, a shift that has brought her into fierce debates with her opposite number, Ed Miliband. She also shares her feelings about what she calls a rising "ethno-nationalism" on the right of British politics, as well as her reaction to
Free Speech Tsar: Arif Ahmed on how to avoid the 'abyss' of political violence
How do you protect and police freedom of speech on campus and in society?Arif Ahmed is a Cambridge Philosopher who is now responsible for enforcing new freedom of speech rules on universities, colleges and students.He took office at a time when there is particular focus on a vexed question: where the boundary should lie between free speech - which should be protected - and speech that threatens, i
Bridget Phillipson on life as education secretary
One of the two candidates to be deputy leader of Labour joins Nick at the end of party's conference in Liverpool.Bridget Phillipson opens up about how her own experience of poverty informs her political views on childcare, schools and universities. She also reveals her DJ set-listProducer: Daniel Kraemer
Research: Chloe Desave
Editor: Giles Edwards
Preparing Farage for Power: Danny Kruger on defecting to Reform UK
Danny Kruger had been at the heart of the Conservative Party since it was led by David Cameron, until he decided that party was "over".He is now a Reform UK MP and has been tasked with preparing the party for government. He sits down with Nick to explain why we need a "revival" of Christian conservatism.Producer: Daniel Kraemer
Reserach: Chloe Desave
Sound: Ged Sudlow and Hal Haines
Editor: Giles
Lucy Powell: People have lost sense of Labour's values
Lucy Powell on why and how she was sacked by Keir Starmer, and why she now wants to be his Deputy Leader of the Labour Party. Producer: Daniel Kraemer
Editor: Giles Edwards
'Build Baby Build': The new housing secretary, Steve Reed
Steve Reed was given the job of Housing Secretary as the result of crisis, after the resignation of his close friend Angela Rayner.But he has been part of the inner circle preparing Keir Starmer's rise to power from the beginning, having recruited the man who ended up as the prime minister's Chief of Staff.In this interview, he gives Nick a behind-the-scenes account of coming to power and the "whi
China, Russia and us: Tony Radakin on four years as Chief of the Defence Staff
An exclusive exit interview with Admiral Sir Tony Radakin on the week he steps down as the UK's military chief.Radakin's time as head of the armed forces was dominated by responding to Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine.As he leaves, he is adamant that the UK is "safe" and that the war has been a "disaster" for Putin.He also talks about the recent show of military strength in China and what i
The Friedrich Merz One
The German Chancellor speaks candidly about Trump's attitude to Europe, war on the continent, and the future relationship BritainProducer: Daniel Kraemer
Researcher: Chloe Desave
Editor: Giles Edwards
The Josh Babarinde One
The Lib Dem Justice Spokesperson managed to persuade ministers to change domestic abuse law within a year of being elected to parliament. Josh Babarinde tells Nick how his own childhood experience spurred him on to push for reform. He also explains how a beer mat persuaded him to join the Liberal Democrats.Producer: Daniel Kraemer
The Keir Starmer Prime Minister One
After some of the most tumultuous days of his premiership, Keir Starmer sits down with Nick in Downing Street, to reflect on a year in power. In a wide-ranging interview, the prime minister defends his style of leadership, while taking responsibility for the setbacks.He also opens up about losing his brother last year and his personal relationship with President TrumpProducers: Daniel Kraemer, Lee
Trump's America: The Scott Perry One
A Republican Congressman outlines the values that lie behind his conservative politics.Scott Perry is the Representative for Pennsylvania's 10th District, a Trump ally, an Iran hawk who sits on the Foreign Affairs Committee, and a veteran, who flew combat missions in Iraq before turning his attention to politics.He joins Nick down the line from Washington DC, in the aftermath of his President's de
The Douglas Alexander One
The Trade Minister explains how a penalty shootout played a role in his government appointment.Douglas Alexander has the same job that he had 20 years ago in Tony Blair's government. He reflects on how the world has changed in that time, and his motivation for returning to politics after a humiliating defeat in 2015.
The Mel Stride One
The Shadow Chancellor sets out his vision for a more "thoughtful" politics and faces up to the challenge of winning the argument before the next general election.Sir Mel Stride reveals what he admires about his opposite number, Rachel Reeves, and why a world war two commander is one of his political heroes.He also has a warning about what the British economy would look like under Nigel Farage. Pro
The Jacinda Ardern One
How does it feel to be held up as the 'anti-Trump' by progressives across the globe?Jacinda Ardern was prime minister of New Zealand for 6 years and is now committed to promoting empathy and kindness in world leadership. She joins Nick in the Political Thinking studio to reflect on her unexpected rise to power and being described as a 'global pinup for progressive values'.She also opens up about h
The Tanni Grey-Thompson One
After 15 years as a member of the House of Lords, Tanni Grey-Thompson reflects on how a career at the top of sport prepared her for the world of politics.The crossbench peer speaks to Nick about what she sees as a dangerous relationship between benefit reforms and legalising assisted dying.Producer: Daniel Kraemer
The Eluned Morgan One
The First Minister of Wales sets a marker to the left of Keir Starmer, setting out her vision of a "Red Welsh Way", drawing inspiration from Gavin and Stacey.Producer: Daniel Kraemer
The Richard Tice One
Reform UK’s deputy leader reflects on a year of political success, a privileged upbringing and the cabinet job he’s eyeing upProducer: Daniel Kraemer
The Joe Biden One
To mark the 80th anniversary of VE Day, former president Joe Biden sits down with Nick Robinson for an exclusive interview, his first since leaving the White House.He issues a stark warning about the future of the western alliance and criticises his successor’s approach to foreign policy.In this extended interview, Biden also reflects on his decision to drop out of the 2024 election and the state
Bonus: The Rishi Sunak Lessons from Downing Street One - Part 2
In the second, bonus instalment of this exclusive interview with the former prime minister, Rishi Sunak opens up about his time as Chancellor and Prime Minister, including how his relationship with Boris Johnson fell apart, why he regrets his "Stop the Boats" slogan and what comes next for someone who has become an elder statesman, aged 44.Producers: Daniel Kraemer and Joel Massey
The Rishi Sunak Lessons from Downing Street One
An exclsuive in-depth interview with the Rishi Sunak. In this first instalment, the former prime minister tells stories from behind the scenes on the world stage explains why he thinks we must now cut welfare spending to fund defence.Sunak reflects on how a sense of duty - inspired by his Hindu faith - helped drive his political career, and reflects on how and why he ultimately led the Conservativ
The Carla Denyer 2025 One
The co-leader of the Green Party of England and Wales joins Nick for a conversation
The Heidi Alexander One
The Transport Secretary on Corbyn, Ukraine and growing up in SwindonProducer: Lauren Tavriger
The Charlie Taylor One
The Chief Inspector of Prisons for England and Wales on how he went from being a teacher at a school for kids with beahvioural problems, to being the leading voice on prison conditions. He tells stories of cheap suits, perspex windows, being the subject of offensive graffiti, and explains how he retains optimism.Producers: Lauren Tavriger and Daniel Kraemer
The Zia Yusuf One
Who is the 38-year-old, Muslim, second-generation immigrant chairman of Reform UK?Zia Yusuf joins Nick in the Political Thinking studio to tell his story, lay out his party's path to power, and share his thoughts on Boris Johnson, Elon Musk, Suella Braverman and his boss, Nigel Farage.Producer: Daniel Kraemer
The Chris Philp One
The Shadow Home Secretary joins Nick in the Political Thinking studio to reflect on mistakes of the last government, humility in opposition and his anger at the new government.Chris Philp also opens up about the impact of caring for his premature baby twins and what he has learned from success and failure in business. Producer: Daniel Kraemer
The Kim Leadbeater One
The Labour MP sits down with Nick to reflect on how she went from selling beds in her Yorkshire hometown, to being at the forefront of political debate, as the face of the campaign to legalise assisted dying, and how the murder of her sister, Jo Cox, helps explain the journey.Producer: Daniel Kraemer
The Rachel Reeves Chancellor One
The Chancellor reflects on her first six months in power and what lies behind her determination that she has "what it takes" to "turn things around".Producer: Daniel Kraemer
The Nick Clegg One
Nick Robinson speaks to Sir Nick Clegg about life as Mark Zuckerberg's right hand man at Meta and the transition from Westminster to Silicon Valley. He responds to challenges on regulation of social media companies and issues a warning about the political power of Elon Musk.Producer: Daniel Kraemer
The Husam Zomlot One
The Head of the Palestinian Mission to the UK reflects on a childhood in a Gaza refugee camp and how hope is what keeps him going.Update: This episode has been edited to remove a brief exchange suggesting that an interim finding by the International Court of Justice (ICJ) found it plausible that genocide had been committed in Gaza. The ICJ actually decided that the Palestinians had a plausible rig
The Daisy Cooper One
The Deputy Leader of the Liberal Democrats reflects on her journey from campaigning as a child against nuclear weapons and scratchy jumpers, to being at the heart of the third-largest party in parliament.Producer: Daniel Kraemer
The Mark Rowley One
The Metropolitan Police Commissioner reflects on the decision to rejoin the UK's largest police force when it was in crisis.Sir Mark Rowley sits down with Nick Robinson to outline the challenges the Met faces under his leadership, as well as how he decided as a teenager that policing was his mission.Producer: Daniel Kraemer
The Darren Jones One
The Chief Secretary to the Treasury sits down with Nick to chart his rise to the heart of Starmer's government.How did a Bristol boy, whose parents sometimes went without meals to ensure he had food, end up at the Chancellor's side, in charge of the purse-strings of the government?Producer: Daniel Kraemer
The Rupert Soames CBI One
How did Churchill's grandson end up at the top of British industry?Rupert Soames - Chair of the Confederation of British Industry - sits down with Nick Robinson to talk about this Labour government's first budget, which he claims did not offer enough "bang for the buck"Producer: Daniel Kraemer
The Kemi Badenoch for Leader One
What shaped the views and principles that Kemi Badenoch hopes will help her win the race to become next leader of the Conservative Party?Nick Robinson sits down with the former Business Secretary near the end of her party's leadership contest. Producer: Daniel Kraemer
The Matt Goodwin One
The academic and author Matt Goodwin sat down with Nick Robinson in the aftermath of the riots that spread across the UK in the summer, to discuss whether there are 'legitimate grievences' that lay behind the violence, or just 'hate-fuelled mob violence sparked by misinformation.
The Tzipi Hotovely One
The Israeli Ambassador sits down with Nick Robinson on the week of the one-year anniversary of the Hamas attack.
They discuss what lies behind her worldview, the mindset of Israelis and the actions of her government.
The John Swinney One
The First Minister of Scotland sits down with Nick to reflect on his reluctant path to power.Producer: Daniel Kraemer
The Wes Streeting Health Secretary One
The Health Secretary sits down with Nick Robinson at the end of the Labour conference in Liverpool.Wes Streeting reflects on how his family role-models led him to become a political fighter, rebukes those who criticise him for being too gloomy about the NHS, and reveals why an Oasis classic was his kareoke song of choice at the previous night's party.Producer: Daniel Kraemer
The Mick Whelan One
Mick Whelan is General Secretary of Aslef, the union representing train drivers. He sits down with Nick on the week that his members voted overwhelmingly to accept a pay offer, bringing to an end two years of strike action.Whelan reflects on growing up in working class West London and being one of a number of 2nd-generation Irish immigrants who have become union leaders in the UK.
Producer: Dani
The James Cleverly for Leader One
Why does the former Home Secretary believe he has 'outperformed everyone else on this leadership ticket by a country mile'? How did growing up as a mixed-race boy in London at the height of the National Front shape his politics? And what does the government need to do to improve integration in the UK?
The Karim Khan International Prosecutor One
The Chief Prosecutor at the International Criminal Court sits down with Nick Robinson.Producers: Daniel Kraemer and Jonathan Brunert
The Liz Kendall One
Nick Robinson talks to the new Work and Pensions secretary about being at the centre of the Labour government's first row, taking on the scourge of worklessness and how her 2-year-old son is a cure for stress.Producer: Daniel Kraemer
The Robert Jenrick 2024 One
Robert Jenrick on what went wrong for the Conservative Party and how to turn it around
The Pat McFadden in Power One
Nick Robinson talks to the man at the heart of the new Downing Street government.Producer: Daniel Kraemer
The Caitlin Moran One
Bestselling author and columnist talks to Nick Robinson about why, after years of writing about women and girls, she decided to turn her attention to problems with boys and young men with her latest book "What About Men?"Producer: Daniel Kraemer
The Victoria Atkins One
After a damning report into maternity services in England, the Health Secretary opens up about her own traumatic childbirth experience in the NHS.Victoria Atkins also speaks to Nick Robinson about a change of tone in dealings with doctors' unions, growing up as child of an MP and what she thought when Natalie Elphicke defected to Labour.
The Emma Little-Pengelly One
Northern Ireland's Deputy First Minister talks to Nick Robinson.
The Nigel Farage 2024 One
Nigel Farage tells Nick Robinson that "timing is everything" when it comes to deciding whether to return to frontline politics.
Fresh off the plane from Florida, Farage talks about what he can learn from - and how he can defend - Donald Trump, as well as islamophobia, Liz Truss, and what he would do if prime ministerProducer: Daniel Kraemer
The Mariana Mazzucato One
One of the world's most influencial progressive economists outlines her pitch to leaders across the world - and Starmer's Labour Party - to focus on ambitious 'missions' that can transform society for the better.
The Emma Runswick One
The Deputy Chair of the British Medical Association Council talks to Nick Robinson ahead of the latest round of junior doctor strikes. She defends the pay demands set out by doctors, tells the story of a life of activism, and opens up about the horrors of working in Covid wards at the height of the pandemic.Producer: Daniel Kraemer
The Shabana Mahmood One
The Shadow Justice Secretary and Labour's most senior Muslim MP reflects on Gaza, her faith and campaigning for Rishi Sunak's "geek vote" when they were at universityProducer: Daniel Kraemer
Bonus episode: The Michelle O’Neill One - Revisited
Nick looks back at his 2021 conversation with the new First Minister of Northern Ireland
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