The Trial of Lucy Letby
This podcast follows the trial of Lucy Letby, a British neonatal nurse convicted of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder six more. It provides daily reports from the courtroom, featuring insights from Daily Mail correspondent Liz Hull and broadcast journalist Caroline Cheetham. Listeners can follow the evidence as it is presented to the jury, including coverage of the retrial for the attempted murder of a premature baby girl known as Baby K. The podcast is part of The Crime Desk, which offers access to previous series and a weekly newsletter.
Episodes
The Inquiry: Babies Should Not Have Died
We now know for certain, babies should not have died at the Countess of Chester Hospital. In her scathing report into the failings which allowed Lucy Letby to harm babies for months, Lady Justice Thirlwall said three babies should not have died and seven more should not have been harmed. In her scathing report she condemned a fundamental lack of understanding of basic safeguarding regulations, a “
The Inquiry: The Hospital’s Day of Reckoning
Could Lucy Letby have been stopped sooner? Could babies have been saved? Was there an orchestrated hospital cover up? Were parents consistently lied to? Did a toxic hospital culture allow a serial killer to remain undetected for months? Today Lady Justice Thirlwall is likely to answer these questions and more when she publishes her long-awaited report into the failings at the Countess of Ches
Episode 1: Nurse on trial
In the first episode of The Trial of Lucy Letby, Caroline and Liz go over the background of the case that has captured attention around the world. We’ll hear how the jury was told that staff at the Countess of Chester Hospital grew suspicious of the nurse in 2015, following an unexplained rise in the deaths and serious collapses of babies in the neonatal unit.To unlock the full series, you’ll need
Conviction
In this episode Liz and Caroline speak to Danny Bogado, the director of a new Channel 4 documentary called Conviction: The Lucy Letby Case. They discuss why he wanted to make a film on the case, how he recruited contributors and why he feels it is important that audiences make up their own minds about her guilt or innocence.The Trial of Lucy Letby is part of the Crime Desk. Press here to subscribe
"The Game of Law”
In this episode Caroline and Liz sit down with the man at the centre of the chatter about the safety of Lucy Letby’s convictions - the man who was never called to give evidence in her trial. In this interview Dr Mike Hall questions the justice system, if jury trials are always the best way to try complex cases and his concerns about the tactics of Lucy Letby’s new barrister Mark MacDonald. Th
30: The Inquiry: Over to the CCRC
In this episode Caroline and Liz have the latest on Lucy Letby’s defence case after her barrister Mark McDonald hand delivered the evidence which he says proves her convictions are unsafe, to the Criminal Cases Review Commission. So we sent Liz to have a chat with him. Also we’d love to know a bit more about you, and the kind of content you like - so we can bring you more of it. It’s a
29: The Inquiry: Trial Update: Final Day
In this update Caroline and Liz have the final day of the inquiry. Lady Justice Thirlwall rejected the application made yesterday to pause the inquiry and said she hoped her final report would be ready by November. The Trial of Lucy Letby is part of the Crime Desk. Press here to subscribe today for ad-free listening, full access to all our shows, early access to new shows, and bonus episodes.
28: The Inquiry: The “Cover-Up”
In this episode Caroline and Liz discuss the closing statements of the families of the babies and the senior executives of the Countess of Chester Hospital. We’ve got details of the executives’ application to pause the inquiry amid claims that ‘new’ evidence could render Lucy Letby’s convictions unsafe.And the response of the families, who argue it is simply a cynical ploy by a manipulative serial
27: The Inquiry: Trial Update: 'They Deserved Better'
In this episode of the Trial Update, Caroline and Liz have the assurance the Heath Secretary Wes Streeting has given to the inquiry that what happened at the Countess of Chester Hospital should never happen anywhere else. The inquiry was also told that the Department for Health were “deeply troubled” by the way the doctors were treated by senior managers. And the hospital has now accepted for the
26: The Inquiry: The Police Investigation Widens
In this emergency episode Caroline and Liz have the breaking news that detectives are now investigating certain members of staff who worked at the hospital at the time Lucy Letby was killing and harming babies. Cheshire Police have confirmed their investigation into Corporate Manslaughter, which focused on the hospital, has now been upgraded to Gross Negligence Manslaughter. That means they are no
25: The Inquiry: The Press Conference. How significant was it?
In this episode Caroline and Liz discuss this week’s press conference by Lucy Letby’s defence team. They go over the findings of the expert panel, who now say she isn't guilty of any murders, and compare it to the evidence scrutinised at her two trials.They also speak to Lord Ken Macdonald KC, the former Director of Public Prosecutions, who gives his take on the Criminal Cases Review Commission an
24: The Inquiry: The Final Witnesses
Caroline and Liz run through the evidence of the final week of witnesses, including that of Jane Tomkinson, the current chief executive of the Countess of Chester Hospital.She tells the inquiry that things have significantly changed in the nine years since Lucy Letby murdered babies on the neo-natal unit and that senior managers are more open and better at listening to staff than before.We also he
23: The Inquiry: Jeremy Hunt
Caroline and Liz are back with the first week of evidence from the Inquiry of the New Year. They explain the testimony of MP Jeremy Hunt, who was Health Secretary, when Lucy Letby murdered and harmed babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital, in 2015 and 2016.He apologised to the families and said he took ultimate responsibility for a failure to implement recommendations from previous NHS inquiri
22: The Inquiry: The Magic Circle
In this final episode before The Inquiry takes a break for Christmas, Caroline and Liz explain the evidence of Nicholas Rheinberg, the Senior Coroner for Cheshire. He said he was ‘horribly disappointed’ at being kept in the dark about the consultants’ concerns about Lucy Letby and horrified that the paediatricians allowed him to carry out an inquest into the death of Baby A without telling him the
21: The Inquiry: The Coroner was Never Told about Lucy Letby
In this week’s episode, Caroline and Liz bring the evidence of Sir Duncan Nichol, the hospital’s board chairman. He was also the head of the NHS when nurse Beverley Allitt murdered children at a hospital in Grantham. He tells the inquiry it was a ‘serious failure’ by the Countess of Chester Hospital not to tell the families of the babies harmed what was going on and he apologised for not keeping t
20: The Inquiry: Trial Update
Caroline and Liz have another update from the Thirlwall Inquiry where the Medical Director Ian Harvey was accused of “fobbing off” the mother of one of the babies who was killed by Lucy Letby. He also denied withholding evidence from the coroner. But he admitted not commissioning a forensic review of the deaths which may have uncovered a crime sooner was a missed opportunity.The Trial of Lucy Letb
19: The Inquiry: ‘Guns to my head’
In today’s episode Caroline and Liz have the evidence for the first time from the two most senior managers at the Countess of Chester Hospital. Ian Harvey and Tony Chambers have never spoken before but they appeared before Lady Justice Thirlwall. They apologised to the families of the babies who were killed and harmed by Lucy Letby for not communicating with the parents properly and they were chal
18: The Inquiry: The Managers
In this episode Caroline and Liz have the evidence from some of the senior managers from the Countess of Chester Hospital. It's the first time we've heard from them, and all accepted mistakes had been made in the way the concerns about Lucy Letby had been dealt with. But Tony Chambers, the Chief Executive, was reluctant to accept any personal failings, and Alison Kelly, the Director of
17: The Inquiry: Trial Update
A big week at the Thirlwall Inquiry as the managers get their chance to speak and to answer the criticisms that they were too slow to act to stop Lucy Letby. First up is Alison Kelly, The Director of Nursing. We’ll be bringing you extra episodes all week this week to reflect what’s happening here in Liverpool. The Trial of Lucy Letby is part of the Crime Desk. Press here to subscribe today for ad-
16: The Inquiry: Dr Brearey
In this episode Caroline and Liz have the evidence of former Detective Chief Superintendent Nigel Wenham, the police officer who was instrumental in launching the police investigation into Lucy Letby’s crimes.They also hear from one of the key doctors in the case - Dr Stephen Brearey - the lead consultant on the neo-natal unit. He apologised to the families of the babies murdered and harmed by Luc
15: The Inquiry: Trial Update
In this bonus update the Head of the Neo-Natal Unit Dr Stephen Brearey told parents he was sorry his actions had not been enough to stop their children being harmed and killed. He also accused Lucy Letby of harming babies BEFORE she killed Baby A in June 2015. And he admitted he and others missed opportunities which could have stopped her.The Trial of Lucy Letby is part of the Crime Desk. Press he
14: The Inquiry: Trial Update
In the first episode of The Trial Update Caroline and Liz have a snapshot of the evidence of Dr Ravi Jayaram as he appeared before the Thirlwall inquiry.He said sorry, and said he wishes now he'd been stronger and braver and spoken up sooner about Lucy Letby.He also said senior managers would not take the consultants' concerns seriously and he now reflected it had been like being in an abusive rel
13: The Inquiry: Dr. Jayaram
In this episode Caroline and Liz have the evidence from Dr Ravi Jayaram. He accepted that he should have done more sooner to stop Lucy Letby from harming babies. He said he should have been braver and more courageous in speaking up, but he said his concerns initially seemed "outlandish".He also told the Thirlwall Inquiry that after Lucy Letby was eventually moved off the ward she told him she'd be
12: The Inquiry: How to Get Away with Murder
In this episode Caroline and Liz discuss the evidence of the union rep who became close friends with Lucy Letby. Hayley Griffiths exchanged jokey and inappropriate texts with her about ‘tips’ on how to get away with murder and told her they would be ‘friends forever.’They also hear evidence about Lucy Letby’s employment grievance and how rumours were flying around the hospital that a consultant ma
11: The Inquiry: Will it Make a Difference?
The Thirlwall Inquiry is having a week off so it's a good time for Caroline and Liz to chat to lawyer and expert Elkan Ambrahamson about what difference, if any, public inquires really make in changing things for the future.They also have more details about Lucy Letby's latest appeal which was thrown out last week by three judges - signalling the end of the road for her, unless her lawyer can find
10: The Inquiry: Drawer of Doom
In this episode we hear from the nursing manager who got ‘too close’ to Lucy Letby, sending her chummy messages telling her to ‘hang on in there, girl,’ after police were called in. Karen Rees said she felt ‘bullied’ by a consultant when he called her at home to demand Lucy Letby wasremoved from the ward, after she murdered two triplet brothers in quick succession. He claimed to have a ‘drawer of
9: The Inquiry: The ‘Favourite’
Caroline and Liz are back with the latest from The Thirlwall Inquiry which is continuing to investigate how Lucy Letby was able to commit murder at the Countess of Chester Hospital. In this episode we learn more about Letby’s character and behaviour from her fellow nurses working closely with her on the neonatal unit. We are told she initially failed her final year placement as her mentor felt she
8: The Inquiry: Doctor U
Caroline and Liz are back with the latest from The Thirlwall Inquiry which is continuing to investigate how Lucy Letby was able to commit murder at the Countess of Chester Hospital. In this episode we hear from Doctor U, the married doctor who prosecutors at Lucy Letby's trial described as her boyfriend and who she denied having an affair with. He tells the inquiry he didn’t suspect her
7: The Inquiry: Doctors vs Nurses
In this episode Caroline and Liz have the evidence from some of the doctors who worked on the ward with Lucy Letby. They all told the inquiry the numbers of babies collapsing and dying caused staff to think the unthinkable - that a member of staff was harming babies. Once they did raise concerns with managers they were wrongly told a review had cleared Lucy Letby and they were ordered to writ
6: The Inquiry: Lies & Cover-ups
Caroline and Liz are back with the latest from The Thirlwall Inquiry which is continuing to investigate how Lucy Letby was able to commit murder at the Countess of Chester Hospital. In this episode we hear the testimony from 8 parents who had babies on the neonatal unit. The same themes recur again and again. We hear how the families’ search for answers fell upon deaf ears. Many describe thei
5: The Inquiry: A Hunch Should Be Enough
Join Caroline Cheetham and Liz Hull as they cover the latest evidence from the Thirlwall Inquiry, which is examining how Lucy Letby was able to commit murder whilst working at the Countess of Chester Hospital. In this episode we recount the experiences of the parents of five babies who were killed or harmed by the neonatal nurse through their first-hand testimony. We
4: The Inquiry: They Never Gave Up
In this episode we hear evidence from two mothers whose babies were murdered by Lucy Letby on the neonatal unit at the Countess of Chester Hospital. They detail a lack of disclosure and poor communication from the hospital. They confirm the consequences of the hospital managers’ delay in contacting the police and the lack of accountability felt at the time and ever since. Their dis
3: The Inquiry: They Should Be Ashamed
We are now at the end of the first week of the Thirlwall Inquiry set up to establish how Lucy Letby was able to get away with murdering babies on an NHS hospital ward for so long. Already, damaging testimony has been delivered about how multiple attempts to raise the alarm went unheeded, and delays in calling in the police cost babies' lives. Why were managers slow to act? What action could o
2: The Inquiry : Here We Are Again
Following the trial and conviction of neonatal nurse Lucy Letby, The Thirlwall Inquiry has been set up to examine the events at the Countess of Chester Hospital that surrounded the murder and attempted murder of multiple babies. It began today, Tuesday 10th September 2024, at Liverpool Town Hall. In this episode Caroline Cheetham and Liz Hull discuss the very first day of the hearing as the openin
1: The Inquiry: Addressing The Doubters
As it’s revealed Lucy Letby has changed her legal team this special episode takes a look at what is causing rampant speculation amongst both experts and the general public that Lucy Letby’s conviction could have been ‘unsafe’. We speak to Professor Jane Hutton, who signed a letter calling for an extension to the scope of the Inquiry as she questions the statistical evidence that was provided in co
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