The Non-Billable Podcast
The Non-Billable Podcast takes UK legal professionals beyond the billable hour, bringing you interviews with top lawyers, law firm leaders, industry experts and legal tech innovators to uncover actionable insights on the business of law, career growth and the future of the industry. Hosted by Oliver Attinger, a former finance lawyer at a leading City law firm, and brought to you by Non-Billable, the legal media platform for City lawyers, in-house counsel, and legal professionals.
Episodes
Lewis Silkin’s Jo Farmer on why two managing partners are better than one
Jo Farmer, joint managing partner of Lewis Silkin, joins the podcast to discuss the firm’s rapid growth and the strategy behind it. She explains why Lewis Silkin has resisted chasing revenue for its own sake, instead focusing on organic growth, its core strengths and expanding into locations where it sees opportunities for both clients and talent.Jo also talks about her own route into law, from gr
How David Beech built Knights into a £200m law firm
David Beech, CEO of listed law firm Knights, joins the podcast to discuss how he has built one of the UK's largest regional legal businesses since buying the firm in 2012. He explains why Knights has prioritised people and cash over traditional law firm metrics, how the business has grown through almost 30 acquisitions, and why he believes law firms should separate ownership from management.Da
Inside Mayer Brown’s London private capital push
Dom Griffiths, London managing partner of Mayer Brown, joins the podcast to discuss the strategy behind one of the firm's strongest years in London. He explains why Mayer Brown has invested so heavily in private capital, how targeted lateral hiring is reshaping the practice and where he believes the firm can differentiate in an increasingly competitive transatlantic market.Dom also reflects on
Richard Medd on Browne Jacobson’s growth strategy
Richard Medd, managing partner of Browne Jacobson, joins the podcast to discuss how the firm has doubled revenue over the past six years - revenue for the most recent financial year came in at a record £149m - and the strategy behind its recent growth. He explains why Browne Jacobson has invested heavily across its UK and Ireland network, the thinking behind its expanding London presence, and why
What Microsoft expects from its law firms in the AI era
Rebecca Anderson, Microsoft's head of legal for EMEA, joins the podcast to discuss how the in-house function at one of the world's biggest tech companies is adapting to the AI era.She explains why Microsoft has overhauled its legal operating model, how AI is changing the role of lawyers, and why the function is increasingly becoming a strategic partner to the business rather than simply a
Sidley executive committee chair Brian Fahrney on London, talent and the global elite
Brian Fahrney, chair of Sidley Austin's executive committee, joins the podcast to discuss the firm's transformation into one of the fastest-growing US law firms in London. He explains why Sidley spent years investing in private equity, how the strategy reshaped its London office, and why the firm remains bullish on the London market.The conversation explores the growing importance of the &
BCLP senior partner Segun Osuntokun on growth, mergers and weekend emails
Segun Osuntokun, senior partner at BCLP, joins the podcast to discuss leadership, firm strategy and what it takes to run a global law firm while continuing to practise as a partner. Having held senior leadership roles at the firm for more than seven years, he reflects on BCLP's recent return to growth and the long-term strategy behind it.The conversation explores the lessons learned from the m
Private equity and the future of law firms | Podcast special
Private equity investment in law firms has become one of the most talked-about trends in the legal industry. But how much is actually happening? Why are investors interested in legal services, and what does outside capital mean for the traditional partnership model?In this special edition of the podcast, Oliver is joined by Patrick Savage (Burford Capital), Peter Jackson (former managing partner o
The business of international arbitration with Boies Schiller’s Tim Foden
Tim Foden is co-head of the international arbitration group at Boies Schiller Flexner in London. In this episode, he joins the podcast to discuss his path into arbitration, his time at Allen & Overy and Quinn Emanuel, and why he believes specialist disputes firms offer something fundamentally different to full-service law firms.The conversation explores the business of international arbitratio
Why US firms are still winning the talent battle in London
Headhunter Scott Gibson returns to the podcast for a wide-ranging conversation on what’s going on in the London partner market. As co-founder of Edwards Gibson, Scott tracks every major partner move in the City and has one of the clearest views of how the market is moving beneath the surface.We discuss why partner movement remains near record levels despite a tougher economic backdrop, the continu
Inside Lawfront: The PE-backed law firm group betting big on consolidation
Axel Koelsch, COO of private equity-backed legal group Lawfront, joins the podcast to discuss how outside investment is reshaping the UK legal market and why he believes consolidation is still in its early stages.Koelsch explains how Lawfront’s model works in practice, why the group allows firms to retain their brands and leadership teams, and how central investment in areas like technology, opera
How private equity is changing the legal market in Sweden
In this episode, Maria-Pia Hope - former managing partner of top Swedish law firm Vinge and now CEO of private equity-backed legal group AGRD - explains why she believes the legal market is entering a “paradigm shift” driven by AI, technology and changing client expectations. Backed by Nordic PE firm Axcel, AGRD has already brought together eight Swedish commercial firms and is now one of the coun
The private wealth opportunity behind Taylor Wessing’s US merger
Today, we unpack the private wealth angle of Taylor Wessing’s merger with Winston & Strawn. Partners Gabriel Estevez and Nick Warr explain how the firm defines private wealth as a holistic, multi-service offering built around high net worth individuals and families, rather than a narrow private client practice.They discuss how the market has evolved, with clients becoming more international an
A psychologist on why lawyers burn out
In this episode, Dr Catherine Sykes, a psychologist and coach who works with City lawyers, explains why burnout is so common among high-performing professionals, and why it’s often misunderstood. Drawing on decades of experience, she argues burnout is not simply about long hours, but “constant effort without psychological returns with no end in sight,” where meaning, satisfaction and growth are mi
The rise of the $30m law firm partner: Inside the US Big Law market
In this episode, David Nicol, headhunter and co-head of Marsden’s US practice, breaks down the structure of the US legal market and how it has evolved over the past decade.From the dominance of New York as the global dealmaking hub to the distinct identities of markets like California, Texas and Chicago, he explains why the US is far more complex and fragmented than many outside it assume.The conv
How to drive change inside a global law firm: White & Case innovation chief Isabel Parker
Isabel Parker, chief innovation officer at White & Case, joins the podcast to talk about what it takes to drive innovation inside a global law firm. A former Freshfields lawyer and Deloitte partner, she shares how her career evolved from practice into leading transformation at one of the world’s largest firms.She explains why innovation isn’t just about technology, even in the age of AI. The r
How Broadfield is rethinking the mid-market law firm model
John Hutchinson, managing partner of top 100 law firm Broadfield, joins the podcast to discuss the firm’s transformation from BDB Pitmans into a tech-enabled, internationally focused mid-market player. He explains the thinking behind the rebrand and the partnership with SHP, a subsidiary of Alvarez & Marsal, designed to support investment in technology, talent and global expansion.He outlines
How AI-powered Lawhive plans to build a global consumer law firm
Pierre Proner is the CEO and co-founder of Lawhive. He joins the podcast to explain how his company is combining AI with a regulated law firm model to rethink consumer legal services. He shares how Lawhive pivoted from initially offering software to law firms, driven by a mission to improve access to legal help and reduce the inefficiencies in how consumer law is delivered.He discusses why selling
Inside Ropes & Gray's Europe strategy: Private capital, Milan and an all-equity partnership
Ropes & Gray has been quietly rolling out one of the most ambitious European growth strategies among US firms in London. In this episode, London managing partner Rohan Massey and antitrust partner Ruchit Patel, who also sits on the firm’s governing policy committee, join the show to discuss how the firm has grown its London office from a two-partner launch in 2010 into a 250-person hub.We talk
'AI is a top priority': Peter Duffy on the tech bets reshaping Big Law
Legal tech has gone from “let’s run a few pilots” to “we need to scale this across the whole firm” - and Peter Duffy says that shift is now well underway in the UK’s top law firms firms.Peter is the founder of Titans, a boutique legal tech and AI consultancy advising large law firms, and he joins the podcast to take the temperature of the market and explain why things feel like they’ve accelerated
DWF boss Matt Doughty on life after listing and why most firms aren’t ready for PE
In this episode, we sit down with DWF CEO Matt Doughty to discuss what comes next for the UK’s biggest private equity-owned law firm.We discuss DWF’s positioning today: a 5,000-strong global business generating more than £500 million in revenue, split roughly 50-50 between insurance services and commercial legal work. Doughty explains why the firm is doubling down on five core market groups and wh
How law firms win the AI race: Alex Kardos-Nyheim on data, defensibility and staying power
Alex Kardos-Nyheim is the founder of SafeSign Technologies and now co-lead of AI research at Thomson Reuters. Alex built a legal-specific large language model while still a trainee at A&O Shearman, ultimately selling the company in 2024. He explains why Safe Sign focused on building the “engine” rather than the interface and how a legal LLM was able to outperform some of the biggest AI labs on
Ex-DLA Piper boss Simon Levine on why Europe is the next big opportunity for UK firms
In this episode, we speak with Simon Levine, former global co-CEO of DLA Piper and now an adviser to Shoosmiths, about leadership, strategy and where Big Law is heading.Simon recounts the move that brought him to DLA Piper in 2005, when he led a 50-person team across to build a global IP, media and technology practice - at the time, one of the largest lateral hires in the UK market. He went on to
Do law firm mergers actually work?
In this episode, we’re joined by Robert Millard, founder of Cambridge Strategy Group and one of the leading thinkers on law firm strategy and mergers. Robert’s route into the legal industry is anything but conventional - from running a national park in Namibia, to advising law firms around the world, to spending time in-house as a business strategist at Linklaters - before completing a PhD on larg
Inside the battle for the City’s best associate talent
In this episode, we sit down with Ria Karnik, who leads the associate recruitment team in London at Major, Lindsey & Africa, to unpack what’s really happening in the City talent market, and why the associate level has become the key battleground. Ria shares a recruiter’s-eye view of how US firms have reshaped hiring in London, where demand is strongest right now, and why mid-level lawyers are
Why more Big Law partners are choosing to go it alone
James Hacking and Mike Estill from Kindleworth join the show to unpack one of the more salient shifts in Big Law right now: senior partners leaving large firms to launch specialist practices - and why the market is suddenly making that move feel much more doable.They explain Kindleworth’s model: helping partners with client followings set up boutique or specialist firms “of their design”, then run
Quinn Emanuel co-founder John Quinn on building a global disputes powerhouse
John Quinn is one of the most influential figures in modern Big Law. In this episode, he reflects on how Quinn Emanuel grew from a four-lawyer spin-out in Los Angeles into the world’s leading litigation-only firm - which is constantly rated as the the “most feared” firm. Quinn explains that the disputes-only model wasn’t fully formed on day one, but became a powerful differentiator once the firm r
The US law firm shaking up London - with partner pay Big Law rivals can't match
Pierson Ferdinand launched in January 2024 in what it says was the largest law firm debut in US history - starting with around 130 partners and growing to more than 270 in under two years. In this episode, co-founders Michael Pierson and Joel Ferdinand explain the model behind what they call an “AI-native,” fully distributed, partner-only law firm.They break down how the structure works: no physic
Leaving Big Law to start an AI-enabled boutique
In this episode, we speak with Simon Leaf - a former Mishcon de Reya partner who has launched Three Points Law, a tech-enabled boutique focused on technology, sport and commercial/IP work alongside fellow former Mishcon lawyer Tom Murray. After 15 years in Big Law, Simon left to build a firm that uses AI from day one and is structured for the kind of fast, high-volume commercial work he handles.Si
Inside $1.8bn Legora: Alex Fortescue-Webb on the legal AI platform race
Alongside Harvey, Legora has quickly become a frontrunner in the legal AI platform race, offering lawyers a suite of productivity tools for contract review, drafting, legal research and large-scale document analysis. Its rise has been startlingly fast. Founded just two years ago, Legora hit a $1.8 billion valuation in its October funding round and has signed a wave of major UK firms this year alon
How a 245-year-old City firm stays ahead: Wedlake Bell’s Camilla Wallace on external capital, culture and what juniors want today
In this episode, we sit down with Camilla Wallace, senior partner of Wedlake Bell. A private client specialist who has spent 18 years at the firm, Camilla talks through Wedlake Bell’s evolution from a sub-20 partner outfit to a headcount of more than 350, why it has stayed a single-office City firm, and how it balances its 245-year heritage with a “1780 but contemporary” mindset.Camilla explains h
Why private equity wants a piece of Big Law: Former A&O boss David Morley on what's really happening
Private equity is closing in on the legal industry, and few people have a better vantage point than David Morley, former managing and senior partner at Allen & Overy. After steering A&O through the 2008 financial crisis, Morley moved into the investment world, chairing a private equity firm and heading up Europe for one of the world’s biggest pension funds. Earlier this year, he teamed up
The $20m law firm partner: Headhunter Siobhán Lewington on the battle for Big Law talent
In this episode, Siobhán Lewington, partner at leading legal headhunter Macrae, joins us to unpack what’s driving the lateral partner market in London. A former Allen & Overy and Arthur Cox lawyer, Siobhán has more than two decades advising firms on partner hires and team moves giving her a unique view into how City law has changed.She explains how the market has evolved from the “gentlemen’s
Harvey: Inside the $5bn legal AI startup taking over Big Law with chief business officer John Haddock
Harvey has become the poster child of the legal AI boom - used by over half of the top 100 US law firms and backed by more than $700 million in funding. But what does the startup actually do for lawyers day to day, and how is it turning hype into genuine impact inside Big Law firms?In this episode, John Haddock, Harvey’s chief business officer and a former Stripe exec, takes us inside the company’
Lessons from a Big Law leader: Charlie Geffen on US dominance, the rise of private equity, transatlantic mergers, and why striking deals with Trump made sense for some
Few people have had a closer view of the modern City law market than Charlie Geffen. As former senior partner at Ashurst, he helped build one of London’s top private equity practices before moving to Gibson Dunn in 2014, where he became global co-chair of private equity. Today, he splits his time between chairing the taskforce getting the UK ready for T+1 settlement of financial trades, a senior p
Why Hogan Lovells built a 100-person legal tech company: Sebastian Lach on what clients actually want from AI
Hogan Lovells might not be the first name that comes up in conversations about legal AI, but maybe it should. The firm quietly spun up ELTEMATE, a 100-person legal tech subsidiary, to build tools for clients that go beyond hype and deliver real efficiency gains. At the helm is Sebastian Lach, a Hogan Lovells partner who also leads ELTEMATE.In this episode, Sebastian talks about how ELTEMATE starte
Inside McDermott's $2.8bn merger: London managing partner Aymen Mahmoud on building a transatlantic private capital powerhouse
McDermott has just completed one of the biggest Big Law mergers in recent years, tying up with New York’s Schulte Roth & Zabel to create a $2.8 billion powerhouse sitting just outside the top 10 US firms by revenue. The deal was wrapped up in just three months - record speed by law firm standards - and is already producing results.In this episode, we sit down with Aymen Mahmoud, McDermott’s Lo
Why Hill Dickinson sponsored Everton's new stadium: Peter Jackson on bold marketing bets and lessons from 20 years at the top
Hill Dickinson made headlines earlier this year with one of the boldest law firm marketing moves in recent memory: a multi-million pound deal to put its name on Everton’s new stadium in Liverpool. In this episode, Peter Jackson - the firm’s long-time managing partner and CEO - takes us inside the decision, what it means for brand recognition, and why giving back to the city was part of the rationa
'The reality is very different': KPMG legal chief Stuart Bedford on what people get wrong about the Big Four’s legal ambitions
What role do the Big Four really play in the legal market, and how different are they from traditional firms? In this episode, we sit down with Stuart Bedford, global head of legal at KPMG, to get a first-hand view of how one of the world’s largest professional services organisations is approaching the delivery of legal services.Stuart reflects on his own career journey, qualifying at Linklaters,
'Some firms won't survive': Simmons senior partner Julian Taylor on the legal AI reckoning, NQ pay wars and the US firm challenge
Julian Taylor is senior partner at Simmons & Simmons and one of the City’s most highly regarded employment lawyers. He’s spent over 25 years at the firm and has had a front-row seat to the transformation of the legal profession. In this episode, he shares candid views on the forces reshaping the industry, from the rise of AI to the battle for the best talent.Julian explains how Simmons is embe
Why investors are eyeing law firms: Burford Capital’s Travis Lenkner on how external capital is changing the market and why Burford prefers minority stakes
Private equity and other forms of external capital are moving into the legal sector - a shift that is very likely to reshape law firm strategy. In this episode, we speak with Travis Lenkner, chief development officer at Burford Capital, the world’s largest provider of legal finance, about why investors are increasingly eyeing law firms and what that means for the market.Travis shares his unique pe
The $100m legal AI startup transforming in-house teams: Wordsmith CEO Ross McNairn on turning legal into a revenue driver
Ross McNairn is the founder and CEO of Wordsmith, one of the fastest-growing legal AI startups in Europe. In this episode, Ross shares how Wordsmith is rethinking the in-house legal function - not just with automation, but with a new model for how legal teams can triage and respond to the rest of the business using AI agents.We talk through the challenges of in-house legal teams, why Wordsmith is
Private equity is circling the legal industry: Rosenblatt rescue dealmaker Adil Taha on law firm deals, PE strategy and the exit problem
In this episode, we’re joined by Adil Taha, a former investment banker, private equity executive and one of the most experienced PE figures operating in the UK legal sector today. Adil has led or been involved in multiple private equity transactions across professional services, including the turnaround of several law firms and the recent high-profile rescue of Rosenblatt out of failing listed gro
How top firms compete for talent: City headhunter Ed Parker on the high-stakes game of elite lateral partner hiring
In this episode, we’re joined by Ed Parker, managing director at Fides Search and one of the most trusted headhunters in the City legal market. With nearly two decades of experience advising on partner and team moves, Ed brings a nuanced, data-driven perspective on how top firms are growing, and what that means for lawyers navigating their careers.We explore the structural shifts happening across
The boutique that beat the Magic Circle: How Quinn Emanuel built the most successful litigation practice in London
In this episode, we sit down with Richard East, the founding partner of Quinn Emanuel’s London office - the litigation powerhouse that has gone from a 2008 startup to one of the UK’s most profitable disputes firms, with revenues topping £220 million last year. Richard shares how he built the practice from scratch during the height of the financial crisis.We discuss Quinn Emanuel’s distinctive mode
Running legal at a hypergrowth tech company: Figma's international legal head Jonathan Keen on AI, expansion and EU red tape
In this episode, we speak with Jonathan Keen, head of international legal at Figma - one of the fastest-growing SaaS companies in the world. Jonny leads legal across EMEA, APAC, and Japan, supporting the business through constant product innovation, geographic expansion and a rapidly evolving regulatory landscape.He shares what it’s really like to be the legal lead at a hypergrowth company, from n
How ex-Freshfields lawyer Richard Mabey built Juro into one of Europe’s top legal tech startups: unlearning lawyering, agentic AI in legal and the future of junior lawyers
In this episode, we sit down with Richard Mabey, the co-founder and CEO of Juro. A former Freshfields lawyer, Richard left private practice in 2013 to pursue an MBA and later joined LegalZoom, before launching Juro in 2016. Nearly a decade on, the company is now one of Europe’s leading legal tech startups, helping fast-scaling businesses automate their contract processes and manage legal work with
Inside Perkins Coie’s London play: City veteran Ian Bagshaw on launching a US firm in a crowded market, attracting the best talent, and the rise of private capital
Ian Bagshaw is a City law private equity partner now heading up the London office of US law firm Perkins Coie which he launched in 2024. A highly experienced corporate lawyer with nearly 30 years in the field, he is recognised for his leadership in the private equity market at both UK and US law firms.Before joining Perkins Coie, he was co-head of private equity at White & Case, where he built
How A&O Shearman's legal tech incubator helps keep it ahead in the innovation game - with Shruti Ajitsaria, head of Fuse
Shruti Ajitsaria is a partner at A&O Shearman and the head of Fuse, the firm’s legal tech incubator. Since launching Fuse in 2017, Shruti has helped A&O engage with over 60 startups, run dozens of pilots, and turn legal tech from a buzzword into a real driver of value for both lawyers and clients.In this conversation, Shruti shares how she went from credit derivatives lawyer to leading one
The City lawyer behind Garfield AI: the UK’s first AI law firm
In this episode, we speak with Philip Young - a former City litigation partner, founder of boutique firm Cooke, Young & Keidan, and now co-founder of Garfield AI, the first AI-powered law firm to gain regulatory approval from the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA).Young shares the origin story behind Garfield, which began as a personal frustration with how hard it was for small businesses t
Inside Addleshaw Goddard’s legal tech strategy: innovation head Kerry Westland on managing a 70-person team, the explosive rise of AG’s internal AI tool, and what the future of law looks like
Kerry Westland leads one of the most ambitious innovation functions of any major law firm - a 70-person team at Addleshaw Goddard dedicated to transforming how legal services are delivered (with and without tech).In this episode, Kerry shares her journey from paralegal to head of innovation, and how AG has built out a tech strategy that blends vendor tools with homegrown solutions - including AGPT
General counsel at a Premier League football club: Fulham FC’s Peter Limbert on multimillion-pound transfers, sell-ons and staying calm in football’s chaos
In this episode, we sit down with Peter Limbert, general counsel at Fulham Football Club, to explore what it really means to be the top lawyer at a Premier League football club. From leading transfer negotiations to protecting the club's brand and navigating ever-evolving regulations, Peter shares a rare look into one of the most complex in-house legal roles in the sports industry.Peter discus
The lawyer behind the biggest class action in British legal history: Tom Goodhead on building Pogust Goodhead and its $550m bet to take on the global litigation elite
In this conversation, we speak with Tom Goodhead, managing partner of Pogust Goodhead, one of the UK's fastest-growing litigation firms.Tom shares the extraordinary story behind the firm’s rise - from his early days as a junior barrister handling slip-and-trip cases in Tesco to leading the largest class action in British legal history against mining giant BHP. Speaking from Rio de Janeiro, Tom des
How I built Definely: ex-Freshfields lawyer Nnamdi Emelifeonwu on building one of the UK’s fastest-growing tech companies
In this episode, we speak with Nnamdi Emelifeonwu, a former Freshfields associate and now co-founder of Definely - one of the UK’s most exciting legal tech companies. Nnamdi traces his journey building a legal career at a Magic Circle firm and ultimately leaving it all behind to solve a problem he first encountered while working alongside his visually impaired colleague Feargus MacDaeid who would
How to win the commercial law game: ex-RPC boss Jonathan Watmough on leadership, strategy and why most lawyers miss the point
This is a conversation with Jonathan Watmough. Jonathan became managing partner of City firm RPC at just 38. Over the next decade, he repositioned it through the global financial crisis, a shifting legal market and the rise of aggressive lateral hiring. He stepped down in 2016, and has since worn several hats: performance coach, consultant and most recently, non-executive chair of the newly indepe
What lawyers really want from AI: ex-Freshfields lawyer turned legal tech leader on what we’re getting wrong
Today, we speak with Jack Shepherd. Jack started out as a restructuring lawyer at Freshfields before moving into legal tech via the firm’s in-house innovation team. He now works at iManage - the US-based legal tech company behind the document management system used by most major law firms.Jack is a well-known voice in the legal tech space and a regular speaker at industry conferences. He often tak
The City law partner who hit breaking point and is now leading the fight against burnout in the legal industry
This is our conversation with Richard Martin, a former partner at law firms including Jones Day and Speechly Bircham, who, after experiencing severe burnout and a mental health crisis while he was at the peak of his powers, has dedicated his career to improving mental well-being in the legal industry.Now leading the Mindful Business Charter (MBC), Richard advocates for healthier working practices
How AI is reshaping Big Law - and why firms can’t afford to wait, with ex-Ashurst digital chief
In this episode, we talk with Tara Waters. Tara is a leading voice in legal tech and a lawyer with more than 15 years’ experience at City firms including A&O, Simmons and Ashurst where she was a partner and chief digital officer - during which time she successfully rolled out AI tool Harvey to all of the firm’s 4,000+ lawyers and business services staff around the world.Tara shares her unique
'$20 million is the new benchmark in London’: the City’s top headhunter on the law firm partner hiring frenzy, why firms are paying millions and how the rules of partnership are changing
In today’s episode, we sit down with Scott Gibson, one of the City’s top headhunters and co-founder of elite partner-level recruitment firm Edwards Gibson. With 25 years in the game, Gibson has seen it all - and according to him, the market is crazier than ever. We discuss what’s driving the hottest law firm partner transfer market in years, why elite firms are paying eye-watering sums, which prac
The A&O trainee who built (and sold) a legal tech startup as a side project during his training contract
In this episode, we sit down with Alexander Kardos-Nyheim, a lawyer who remarkably built a legal AI company as a side project during his training contract at A&O. In 2024 - just as he was qualifying - he sold the business to Thomson Reuters for a life-changing sum of money. Alexander shares his inspiring journey from a young advocate fighting against a developer threatening his community to be
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