Publishing Rodeo: The Good, The Bad, and the Bloody Ugly
Two authors debuted in the same genre with the same publisher in 2022, but their books and careers took very different paths. This Hugo-nominated podcast examines why such patterns repeat across the industry, using experiences from the hosts, friends, colleagues, and industry professionals. It aims to deconstruct what makes or breaks a book and how to build and sustain an author career.
Episodes
Ep 46: Honesty, Hostility, and Misinformation in Trad Publishing (with Donyae Coles)
Social media is beset by a tidal wave of publishing misinformation, fuelled by bots and platform-farming and algorithms that favour outrage. With special guest Donyae Coles, Sunyi and Scott talk about why this matters, and how on earth we can walk the line between being honest about industry problems, while still being positive and not fueling an atmosphere of misery.
S2 E45: Post-Debut Blues & Bookish Longevity, ft. "Drake Scottford"
Are we really back? Were we ever truly gone? Who is special guest Drake Scottford, and why is he joining us today? These questions and more will be answered in episode 45.On a more serious note, we cover a wide range of topics today: a general catch-up on where we both are, career-wise, what prompted us to record again, and how life after debut is going. (Spoiler: it's complicated and stressful.)T
E44: More Than The Text Of Our Book, ft. Greatest Author Chuck Tingle
Famed for his highly unique fiction, and for the the pink mask that conceals his secret identity, Chuck Tingle (pseudonymous name) is a much-beloved icon in the SFF book world and beyond. Today he joins us to share the incredible story of his journey through publishing, and to make a passionate case for why authors are so much more than just the story they write. We also discuss the nuts and bolts
S2 Ep 43: Momentum, Worldcon, and Arguing on the Internet (ft Sunyi and Scott)
Catch-up episode after a long gap! Sunyi and Scott both discuss career momentum, cheerfully losing at the Hugos, and the pushback they've had from Reddit / the internet. Sunyi explains why she'd turn down other nominations in the future, while Scott talks about why he was happy to sign a smaller deal for his UK rights. They also cover future plans, and what happened to previous author guests. And
S2 E42: Managing Your 'Author Bandwidth', ft Suyi Davies Okungbowa
Authors are expected to juggle many different demands on their time and energy--from social media and self-promotion, to side projects and live events. How do we decide what is or isn't worth our efforts, and where do we set boundaries to prevent burnout and overwhelm?Award-winning author and professor, Suyi Davies Okungbowa, discusses how he makes the writing life work for him, by balancing his o
S2 E41: Write-to-market & the Rise of Romantasy, ft. Nisha J. Tuli
After years of mostly existing in indie space, Romantasy has finally burst onto the trad pub scene where it now reigns supreme, especially in SFF. Today, we talk to Nisha J Tuli, who spotted romantasy's trad potential early and whose career took off as a result. Her career trajectory is a microcosm of what is happening with romantasy more broadly, and gives us the chance to explore what it is like
S2 E40 - The Downside of Blockbuster Advances, ft Ed Wilson (literary agent)
Sunyi and Scott have always maintained that "bigger is better" when it comes to book deals, and that any downsides will also apply to smaller advance sizes. But Ed Wilson, the literary agent and director Johnson & Alcock, believes the discussion is much more nuanced, and that 'blockbuster' book advances can sometimes be a symptom of publishing not working well. With 18 years of experience in t
S2 E39: The State of the Industry, ft. Kristina Perez
Kristina Perez has lived all over the world, working alternately as a journalist, an author, and now as top literary agent. In this episode we cover a number of different topics, putting forward a combination of our own questions and reader-submitted questions, chatting with Kristina generally about the state of the industry and her multi-sided perspective on it. Topics include: reviving a flaggi
S2 E38: Taking Charge Of Your Book Launch, ft. Alexander Darwin
After submitting his debut self-pub novel to the annual SPFBO (self published fantasy blog-off) competition and reaching the semi-finals, Alex Darwin landed himself with a "trad deal" and agent. In the months leading up to his trad re-launch, Alex applied his self-pub experience to his upcoming book launch, trying a number of different angles. Reflecting back, he shares what kind of tactics worked
S2 37 - Reasons To Keep Writing, ft. David Wragg
After solid sales for his first duology, David Wragg's next book series got caught in the infamous post-covid "midlist death spiral". After this current trilogy finishes, his future in trad is uncertain at best.But with his usual good-natured humor, Wragg cheerfully dissects the past six years of his career, including advances, royalties (or negative royalties in this case), the reality of post-de
S2 E36 - The Problem with Author Book Events, w/ Sam Missingham
What's the deal with author book events? Are they useful, do they shift books, and why do they all follow the same format? This week, we speak with Sam Missingham, who spent many years working with the Bookseller, and later with Harper as an author events creator. We talk about what works and what doesn't, whether hiring publicists as a trad author is worth the time, the influence of class and con
S2 E35 - AI Generation and the Future of Cover Art, w/ cover designer Steve Leard
Steve Lead is a freelance cover artist and industry podcaster, with many years' experience working on book cover designs in the publishing industry. Today, he sits down to help demystify the complicated process that goes into creating a book cover. We discuss briefs, trends, industry pay (or lack of it), the impact of thumbnail images on print books--and finally, the elephant in the room: the burg
S2 Ep 34 - Challenging Tradpub's 'Culture of Defeatism', with Mark Stay of THE BESTSELLER EXPERIMENT
In addition to writing bestselling novels and cofounding a viral podcast (THE BESTSELLER EXPERIMENT), Mark Stay also spent many years working with bookstores and publishers, gaining great insight to all sides of the industry. We chat to Mark about his varied experiences, and reflect back on the seven years he spent recording his groundbreaking podcast. This one is fun and quite eye-opening for beh
S2 E33 - The Myth of the Instant Bestseller, with JT Greathouse
As our one and only return guest, JT Greathouse joins us for the launch of Season 2, this time in his capacity as a true-hybrid author (with a bookseller's eye). JT sold his debut, HAND OF THE SUN KING, to a UK publisher, but didn't get a USA deal. With the support and help of his literary agency, he opted to self-publish the American version in the States. This week, we talk about the process of
S2 E32 - Our Hugo Awards "Voter Pack" Compilation
This audio file is a compilation of 11 clips across various episodes, and is part of our submission to the Hugo Awards "Voter Pack." Everyone who pays for Hugo membership is given a "voter pack" with electronic copies of the books, short fiction, novellas, essays, and--in our case--audio files for fancasts.Rather than subject voters to hours of episodes, we've chosen to create a short(ish) compila
SPECIAL EPISODE: The Grim World Predatory Publishers (ft. James MacDonald)
Ever heard the phrase "Money flows to the author"? James "Jim" MacDonald is the one who coined it.Jim is a long-time author and anti-vanity press advocate who, along with many others, has dedicated years of his life to investigating predatory publishers and teaching new authors to protect themselves. Today, he joins us in this Special Episode to share his experiences and knowledge on the rise of t
S2 - BONUS CLIP: Scott Versus The Elk
Just an outtakes edit from Alex Darwin's episode 38, in which Scott shares a hunting misadventure. Absolutely no industry content whatsoever, simply a short bit of chat. Also featuring: Alex Darwin and Sunyi Dean. CONTENT WARNING: Animal hunting (elk) is discussed in detail, which may be upsetting to some listeners.
31 - SEASON FINALE: Leverage, success, and life after Debut Year
Our final show of the season! This week, we talk frankly about author leverage--what it means, and how to use it. We also discuss when and how to pitch new books on proposal, the impact of past sales on that process, and why Scott is (probably) walking away from writing trad fantasy as a result. Other topics: we reflect on regrets and highlights across the past year, do a quick summary of where we
30 - Relaunching A Career, with Holly Race
After being orphaned by multiple agents, and a COVID book launch that hamstrung her sales, Holly Race started again--querying with a fresh manuscript, in a different age category--before finally landing on her feet... for now! Today, we talk about the instability of trad; relaunching a career that stumbled; what Holly learned from reading tv scripts; moving from YA to adult; writing with the marke
29 - Readerships, Sales, and Discoverability with Gail Carriger
Does Twitter sell books? Do book tours improve sales? How do readers actually find authors in the first place? Across a fifteen-year-career, NYT best-selling author Gail Carriger talks about hitting list, collecting data on her readers, and walking away from bad book/film deals. Check the show notes to gain access to a wealth of info and author assistance, via her incredibly detailed blog. ###Show
28 - The Art of Success, with Wesley Chu
Against the odds, Wesley Chu's small-press debut novel became a break-out success. In the ten years since, he has published a dozen other titles, written for large IPs, signed deals with the Big 5, and even dabbled in self publishing. Today, he sits down to chat about unexpected wins, getting blacklisted by publicists, learning to write sex scenes with Diana Galbadon, industry trends for SFF, and
27 - Foreign Rights and the Frankfurt Book
This week, we chat with Anika Scott, an international bestselling author of historical fiction. After years of writing, querying, and revising, Anika's debut novel was snapped up amidst a whirlwind of interest and buzz--only to then launch a week before COVID shut the world down. On one continent, her book flourished, while on another, it tanked. We discuss the European scene, including the Frankf
26 - Why Don't We Just Quit? with Kameron Hurley
After years of rejections, Kameron's early book deals ran into problems when her publishers either folded or went bankrupt, Instead of quitting, she kept going. And going. In the decade since, Hurley has signed new deals, built a fanbase, and even won a Hugo.We sit down with her today to ask hard-hitting questions: Why don't we just quit? Why keep doing it? Why not 'just' self publish? And finally
25 - How to Write For Film, TV, and Tie-Ins (with D. V. Bishop)
If you've ever been curious about alternate or adjacent writing careers, this episode is for you! David "D.V." Bishop got his start 30 years ago writing for comics and IP franchises, before later moving to tv/film scriptwriting. These days, he's back to books and is now an award-winning historical crime novelist. Bringing to bear years of varied experience, he walks us through the trenches and pit
24 - The Pervasive Joy of Writing, with RJ Barker
Because it's NOT bad, not all the time ;-) After Dr. Kerry's brilliant but hard-hitting previous episode, we wanted to return after summer with something gentler, funnier, and possibly even wholesome. This week, please join us as we talk to award-winning fantasy author RJ Barker. Despite dropping out of high school, suffering a chronic illness, losing one agent, and dying on sub , RJ has found his
23 - The Minimum Viability Threshold: Why Some Books Don't Sell (w/ Dr. Kerry Spencer Pray
In 2008, Dr. Kerry Spencer Pray watched her book die on submission after the financial crash halted publishing acquisitions. She then decided to do a PhD, focusing her research on what makes books sell. After studying hundreds of factors, Dr. Kerry Pray zeroed in on a handful that seemed correlated with book sales in some way. All of them were marketing related, and often linked to a book’s advanc
22 - The Mayonnaise Buffet
This week, the wise and witty Ella McLeod sits down to talk with us about the hard-hitting, ever-prevalent topic of whiteness in publishing, including in our own podcast (!) and dissecting the dreaded Diversity Tick-Box. (And if you're curious about that title, we do explain it in-episode!) But first, we also chat about some of the differences between YA and adult publishing, and her experiences a
21 - Against All (g)Odds
After 25 years, 47 books, and at least 4 different genres, Miles Cameron (aka Christian Cameron) has seen and survived a lot in publishing. In addition to being an author, he is also a US Navy officer, trained historian, and martial artist. But when the thriller market changed and sky-high advances evaporated, Miles moved on to historical, fantasy, and even science fiction. Today, we talk about su
20 - When Passion Meets Business, with Daphne Tonge
In 2015, Daphne Tonge started a small "book crate" subscription service out of her London living room, with a tiny pool of subscribers. Today, Illumicrate is a well-known specialist retailer, with a thriving fanbase and strong industry presence, which has laid the groundwork for Daphne's next co-current venture: Daphne Press, an independent publishing imprint run on the same values and with the sa
19 - The 50k Download Special: My 600-Rejection Life, with R.R. Virdi & Wayne Santos
Huge thanks to our listeners for helping us hit 50,000 total downloads! We are incredibly humbled by the interest and support so far. This episode was recorded during the week while Scott was off for paternity leave, and only features Sunyi as host, with R.R. Virdi (author of THE FIRST BINDING) and Wayne Santos (author of THE CHIMERA CODE) as dual guests, and is more wide-ranging and conversationa
18 - A Song of Contracts And Unions, with Julia Vee
So you've signed a book deal, and the book contract has arrived. What does it mean, what can you ask for or changed, and how involved should you be? What organisations can help, if any? Also, why don't we have a writer's union / writer's guild, and how might we get one in future?Today, we sit down with Julia Vee, who is an established indie author with a forthcoming trad title, Ebony Gate, via Tor
17 - Burnout And Other Bullsh*t, with Premee Mohamed
Premee Mohamed is a Nebula, World Fantasy, and Aurora award-winning Indo-Caribbean scientist, and speculative fiction author, with a prolific list of titles and publications to her name. Today, she joins us to talk about the realities of burnout in publishing, and the mental health burden that many authors labor under. It's a heavy topic, but hopefully addressed with plenty of humor, and we hope y
16 - Surviving a Series 'Death Spiral' with Peter McLean
Today we're joined by Peter McLean, a fantasy writer who clawed his way to authorhood through an indie publisher slush pile, despite not being agented at the time. Pete talks to us about his publisher imploding, his first series getting canned, and the perseverance that saw him land another book deal--this time with one of the Big 5. Seven books and ten years later, he's still in the game, with a
15 - Reviews, lists, & other media circuses, with Daniel Roman
How do bloggers hear about books, curate lists, and choose what to review? Why does it feel like every list has the same books? Do physical arcs matter when it comes to getting reviews, and how does author platform intersect? This week we're joined by Daniel Roman, the Associate Editor at the thriving and enormous "Winter Is Coming" sff fansite, to talk about all those topics and more--including s
14 - Film Rights & Hype Trains, with Nicholas Binge
After years of unsuccessful querying and one small-press book, Nick finally hit it big with a break-out novel. Billed among this year's top sci-fi thrillers, ASCENSION is hot property, and has gone to auction in multiple countries--including for its film/tv options.Today, Nick sits down to chat with us about navigating the world of film/tv options, and how it intersects with book publishing. In ad
13 - The Small Press Experience, with Nadia Afifi
This week, we sit down with Arab-American author Nadia Afifi, for a concise and chilled-out chat about her experience of publishing a scifi trilogy through Flametree Press. A lot of listeners are curious about life outside the Big 5 / bigger midsize publishers, so we've tried to cover a number of angles! This episode also touches briefly on wholesaling versus distribution, why royalty percentages
12 - The Finances of a Full-Time Author, with Andrea Stewart
Today we're joined by Andrea Stewart, author of the acclaimed Drowning Empire Trilogy via Orbit. In addition to discussing her long journey to publication and her experience of debuting mid-Covid, Andrea also goes into the practicalities of managing your author finances. We look at how income works out year-by-year at this stage of publishing, talk frankly about the amount of money authors need t
11 - Letting The Good Times Roll, with Nicholas Eames
Today we're joined by Nicholas Eames, author of cult favorite KINGS OF THE WYLD to discuss his publishing experience in a wide-ranging interview. Eames is a debut success story, and we hope you find his conversation as funny, uplifting, and engaging as we did (a welcome change after last week's grim deconstruction!) Other topics addressed: -- the creative process of working with a trad editor-- li
10th Episode Special: Q&A with Sunyi Dean and Scott Drakeford
In celebration of making it to 10 episodes, Scott & Sunyi answer some of the host-specific and/or personal questions that listeners have submitted. This is not really an official episode, just a fun, rambly, probably-too-opinionated extra for them who are interested.
9 - Launch Day Damage, with Sunyi Dean & Scott Drakeford
You know the drill: same genre, same publisher, same debut year--but very different deal sizes, and very different publisher treatment. But how does that actually translate to a book's performance, and what impact does it REALLY have? With the help of some Captain Morgan rum, Sunyi and Scott talk about the months surrounding each of their launch dates, and how their books did, or didn't, perform s
8 - Taking Publishers to Task, with Robin & Michael J Sullivan
Off the back of episode 7, we sit down to throw some complex industry questions at Robin & Michael J Sullivan, in exchange for some very detailed answers. Questions have been marked with rough time stamps for your convenience!QUESTION 1 00:58 What kinds of changes did you make specifically to the Orbit contract that defanged the noncompete to the point that you still had flexibility?As part of
7 - An Epic Journey Through Self-Pub and Trad, with Robin & Michael J Sullivan
Indie vs trad is an ever-green career debate, and is one of our most common listener questions. Authors wrestle frequently with which route will suit them best. But the real question is—why pick between them, when you can do both?Today, we are joined by Michael J Sullivan (a New York Times, USA Today, and Washington Post bestselling American writer) and Robin Sullivan, a powerhouse industry expert
6 - Defining Success, with Michael Mammay
Show notes and topics covered:how to define success for you, personallythe importance of audio, and the commercial impact of a good narratorcommercial versus artistic decisionswhat happens when a book underperforms, and what you can do about itnavigating option clauses for future bookshow sales track-records can impact future contractsusing leverage (when you have it!)What you can argue for in con
5 - ANATOMY OF A BESTSELLER, PT 2 with Richard Swan
Both Richard and Sunyi hit the Sunday Times list right out the gate in the UK. How does that happen? Who gets to decide, and what does it mean? We explain how the Sunday Times lists work in the UK, the importance of crates (and other independent gatekeepers), and why the list is both hard to hit without orchestrated support. Additionally, we discuss what authors should be most afraid of, and what
4 - ANATOMY OF A BESTSELLER, PT 1 with Richard Swan
Richard Swan, Sunday Times bestselling author of JUSTICE OF KINGS, talks to us about the role that luck and timing play in publishing, and the polar opposite approaches that Sunyi and Richard take to writing.We also deep dive into publishing contracts and clauses that debuting authors should be looking at (Richard used to be a lawyer in his dayjob). Other topics covered: marketing plans (or the la
3 - MIDLIST VS MID-SIZE, with Clay Harmon
Big 5 midlist vs midsize author: which is better, which is worse, and what are the pitfalls of going on way or another?This week, we’re joined by Clay Harmon, author of Flames of Mira, to answer exactly those questions as we discuss his publishing journey. As usual, we go hard on the facts: details, money talk, gentle honesty, and bleak statistics.Authors who are querying, on submission, or under
2 - THE SECRET WORLD OF BOOKSELLING, ft J.T. Greathouse and Auntie's Bookstore
The trade publishing industry relies heavily on bookstores and their booksellers for a successful business model. But what do booksellers actually do for authors, and how do they fit into the publishing ecosystem? We hope that this episode will illumiate some of those questions, and provide an ongoing deep-dive into how this industry functions.Today we are joined by 3 guests: Jeremy, Claire, and K
1 - PUBLISHING IS NUTS, with Sunyi Dean and Scott Drakeford
In this episode, we will explain who we are, why we’re doing this, and give a quick overview of our paths into publishing. Topics include: trad versus indie, our publishing journeys, is publishing worth it, how much publishing experiences vary, and groundwork basics about the industry. Among others!
Bonus clip: Ep18 Outtakes (with Sunyi, Scott, and Julia)
A little bit of bonus chatter, extra Scott jokes, interruptions from small children, and general background chaos that was cut from episode 18
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