Thinking the Unthinkable with Nik Gowing
Thinking the Unthinkable is a podcast hosted by Nik Gowing, a BAFTA award-winning former BBC broadcaster. It features bold conversations with visionary leaders, innovators, and change-makers about rapid disruption and deep uncertainty. Episodes explore major issues such as the climate crisis, technological upheaval, AI, leadership challenges, and corporate responsibility. The show challenges conventional wisdom and explores radical solutions for the future.
Episodes
Reporting Climate: The Urgent Fight Against Misinformation with Marek Pruszewicz
How can we successfully communicate the full scale of the climate crisis when traditional media is pulling back? Marek Pruszewicz warns that "if you leave space fallow, it's going to be filled with misinformation, disinformation, denial." Marek Pruszewicz, Chief Executive of Dialogue Earth, joins Nik Gowing for a direct, candid conversation on Thinking the Unthinkable. Marek outlin
Facing Unthinkables: The Urgent Need to Confront New Extremes with David Shukman
Can we successfully adapt to a changing climate before disaster strikes? David Shukman warns that "this is happening with a speed and on a scale that no one is ready for." David Shukman, former BBC Science Editor and author of The Responses, joins Nik Gowing for a direct, unvarnished conversation on Thinking the Unthinkable. David outlines how "the phrase global warming... masks a
A Tough Gig: But 100,000 Directors Won't Back Down on Climate with Julie Baddeley
The positive direction of travel must be recognised and celebrated. Julie Baddeley, Chair of the Chapter Zero Alliance, returns to Thinking the Unthinkable to catch up with Nik Gowing. Since Chapter Zero launched in 2019, the movement has grown from a handful of UK board members into a global alliance of 100,000 directors across 34 chapters in 73 countries. Julie says the shift is from awarenes
The Business Case For Energy Transition Has Never Been Stronger ...So Why Is it Not Sticking?
Why does sustainability still sometimes sound like a cost when the business case for it is becoming increasingly clear? Sally Uren, Chief Acceleration Officer at Forum for the Future and its former CEO, joins Nik Gowing to explore why sustainability is increasingly creating commercial value and why the wider story is still struggling to keep up. “The business case has never been stronger.” Sally
Confronting the Climate Threat to Island Existence with Karen-Mae Hill
What happens when climate change is an intensifying daily reality? Karen-Mae Hill, is High Commissioner for Antigua and Barbuda. Here she joins Nik Gowing to describe the nerve wracking life on the frontline of the climate crisis. From hurricanes the size of Texas to coral reef restoration and renewable energy innovation, she describes both the challenges and the opportunities facing Small Islan
‘The Blueprint Is Broken’: Why Businesses Must Change with Aron Cramer
The model that shaped sustainable business for decades is no longer working. In this conversation, Aron Cramer explains why “the blueprint… is no longer fit for purpose.” Speaking with TTU’s Nik Gowing, he describes a new reality shaped by fragmentation, instability and rapid change. “We are living in a new environment for business.” The ambition remains. But the way forward must change. “We s
‘The Unthinkable Is Here’: What Leaders Must Do Now with Kylie Porter
Thinking the unthinkable is not a theoretical exercise. It is a leadership necessity. And most important it is achievable. In this conversation, Kylie Porter, a CEO from northern Queensland in Australia, explains how she has done it. “It’s a big hairy topic that must not be avoided,” she tells TTU’s Nik Gowing. Her organisation, GW3, is leading the economic transformation away from mining in th
‘More Optimistic Than I’ve Ever Been’: On Nature Security and Growth with Tony Juniper
The energy transition is no longer a distant goal. It is being accelerated by real-world pressures. In this conversation, veteran activist and campaigner Tony Juniper says “I’m more optimistic than I’ve ever been for some time.” He explains that climate change is now much more than an environmental issue. It is “very evidently a question of financial stability, of food security, of geopolitical st
‘Baby Steps’ on Climate Will Not Work - with Kumi Naidoo
Stop Mopping the Floor. Turn Off the Tap. In this upbeat conversation Kumi Naidoo, President of the Fossil Fuel Treaty Initiative, argues that we have spent 30 years treating the symptoms of climate change while protecting its root cause. From a funeral for a glacier to the Fossil Fuel Treaty, this is a conversation about activism, arts, democracy and why courageous hope is now both essential an
Boards Don’t Fail. They Wait. with Helle Bank Jørgensen
In this latest episode of Thinking the Unthinkable podcast, Helle Bank Jørgensen explains why boards are falling behind, even when they think they’re being prudent.“Familiarity creates a powerful illusion. It reassures boards that time is on their side.”But it is not. That illusion comes at a cost. Boards are being destabilised by the pinball effect, with shocks bouncing them unpredictably in ever
Unwrapping Optimism: What’s Really Changing After COP30 with Simon Sharpe
After the disappointment of the COP30 communique, Simon Sharpe cuts through the noise with a very different message: “Reality is way ahead of negotiations.” In this TTU podcast, Simon unwraps optimism. He explains why “twice as much is going to be invested into clean energy… than into fossil fuels” this year. Last year “over 90% of the new power generating capacity… was renewables.” Simon is bot
“Dream Mad. Dream Crazy.” It’s Brave. It’s Bold. And It Works. With Inder Poonaji
“Dream Mad. Dream Crazy” It’s bold. It’s brave. And it works. In this inspiring episode, Inder Poonaji, Director of ESG and Sustainability at Modulaire, explains why achieving the radical progress needed depends on imagination, courage, unlimited risk, and practical action. Hs has basic core principles. “When you let people's imagination run, they can do things where they're not limited
Big Impact, Small Changes: How Sustainability Adds Value with Sarah Mukherjee
COP30 should be raising hopes. In this upbeat conversation, Sarah Mukherjee, CEO of the Institute of Sustainability and Environmental Professionals, explains why pursuing sustainability creates a boon for businesses. Sustainability is not about restriction. It is about adaptation, innovation, and growth. “Less than 2% say their sustainability budgets have decreased,” Sarah tells TTU. “If you swi
Disputing the Fossil Fuel Future with Mark Campanale & Sir Jeremy Greenstock
Mark had told our podcast the “oil age is ending: we’re watching it shrink gracefully”. He said that CTI’s analysis shows a “contraction” by design is going on. Fossil fuel producers are not doubling down on production. In fact they are “stepping back from energy growth altogether”. Sir Jeremy criticised Mark’s argument as “very partial”, “too simplistic” and “too categorical about the decline in
What Behavioural Science Reveals About Humanity and the Climate Crisis with Dr. Sweta Chakraborty
In this episode of Thinking the Unthinkable, Nik Gowing speaks with Sweta Chakraborty, CEO of We Don’t Have Time, about why solving the climate crisis is not only possible but inevitable.Sweta shares insights from behavioural science on how humans process risk, why pessimism is overblown, and how communication and urgency can drive global action. “We need a public groundswell of support… not blame
Positive Tipping Points: Overcoming Climate Instability with Laurie Laybourn
“We can rise to the challenge, if we choose to.” – Laurie Laybourn Laurie Laybourn, Executive Director of the Strategic Climate Risks Initiative (SCRI), shares why the future is still in our hands, even amidst global risks. Key messages: “We have the knowledge, the tools, and the ingenuity, now it’s about using them.” “We’re not passengers. We have agency.” “We have to build resilience into ever
Hard Truth: The last 50% will be far more difficult with John Flint
“Sticking by the status quo will not get us where we need to be, The current trajectory is not sustainable.”That’s the rare and radical warning from top banker John Flint.As CEO of the UK’s National Wealth Fund, he sees the system from the inside. His message is clear. While the first 50% of transition was achieved in a barely visible way, the final 50% will be much more difficult without a huge c
Earth Positive Isn’t Optional: “Start Today or Risk Being Left Behind” with Sherry Madera
“Once you measure something, you can manage it.” Sherry Madera, CEO of CDP, joins Nik Gowing for a bold, data-backed conversation on why disclosure is the single most powerful trigger for climate-positive corporate action. Companies that disclose reduce emissions and boost profits. Supply chains save billions. And the potential returns far outweigh the cost of change. Yet still, only one in ten c
Building Mind Muscle: Why We Must “Throw Out the Old Playbook” with Kristian Teleki
Kristian Teleki, CEO of Fauna & Flora International, issues a direct challenge: “Find your playbook—and throw it out.”The old ways aren’t working. The crisis is accelerating. What we need now is radical mindset shift.“We’ve got to be challenging each other.” “We need to be cunning. We need to be nimble.”This is about shaking up the system. It’s about getting into the rooms where nature and cli
Why We Must Rewire Sustainable Finance – with Nina Seega
The transition to sustainable finance is moving faster than expected. In this conversation, Nina Seega, Director at the Centre for Sustainable Finance at Cambridge Institute for Sustainable Leadership, details to Nik Gowing why net zero is cheaper than many assume, the industries leading the charge, and why sustainability is a financial imperative.Nina highlights that transition costs have dropped
Greenhushing: Why Silence on Climate Means Action with Leah Seligmann
“Climate change is the existential threat we face,” says Leah Seligmann, Chief Executive and Chief Change Catalyst at The B Team. “But the opportunity is an economic transformation that will create jobs, wealth, and excitement... we are not going backwards.”Nik Gowing is joined by Leah Seligmann for this crucial conversation on 'greenhushing' and why silence on climate doesn't mean inaction. #poli
Genie is Out of the Bottle on Clean Tech Funding – with Beverley Gower-Jones OBE
The clean tech revolution is essential to tackling the climate crisis. It’s taking place faster than we think. New funding is enabling it to happen. Beverley Gower-Jones is a leading expert on how to fund clean tech innovation. Her Clean Growth Fund is expanding fast, and more than doubling its resources.. In this new TTU podcast, she highlights to Nik Gowing why clean tech is crucial to our fu
We Must Stop Talking to Ourselves in Climate Jargon with Tom Rivett-Carnac
What’s stopping us from solving the climate crisis?"We need to stop talking to ourselves." In this thought-provoking conversation, Tom Rivett-Carnac challenges us to rethink how we communicate about the climate crisis. Are we truly engaging the people who need to hear the message most? Or are we stuck in an echo chamber?As co-founder of Global Optimism, Tom brings a unique perspective on
Leadership Revolution: New Playbook for a Disruptive World with Andrew Liveris
Andrew Liveris, former Dow Chemical CEO, explains passionately to Nik Gowing on this Thinking the Unthinkable podcast that constant disruption demands a radical reimagining of skills. Andrew challenges every assumption leaders make about their abilities. He makes a compelling case for discarding outdated rule books for a new leadership toolbox. There is an urgency to adapt to the fast-evolving lan
How Activism Reduces Investments in Fossil Fuels with Catherine Howarth OBE
Be positive. Hear how smart, radical lobbying is achieving a big rethink on investments in fossil fuels, especially from pension funds.In our latest Thinking the Unthinkable podcast Catherine Howarth OBE, Chief Executive of ShareAction reveals the impact of their successful low key, activist tactics.She tells TTU’s Founder & Director, Nik Gowing: “Oh yes, we've got to stop feeling gloomy. Ther
Climate: Bold Leadership Now? Or a Lost Future? - with Sandrine Dixson-Declève
What’s holding leaders back from solving the climate crisis?In this episode interview with Sandrine Dixson-Declève, Nik Gowing challenges the urgency of rethinking business models for sustainability and fairness. They explore the connection between climate and inequality and the urgent role of courageous leadership.Sandrine emphasises, "The age of bold leadership is here. We need systemic changes—
Irreversible Momentum: Green Transition Won’t be Stopped – with Dan Esty
In this powerful interview with Dan Esty, Director at Yale University’s Center for Environmental Law and Policy and Nik Gowing, challenge the true intentions behind corporate sustainability efforts. Dan Esty boldly states, “We are at a critical moment—corporate leaders must make genuine, systemic changes, or we will face irreversible environmental damage.” Listen in as they dive into the reality o
New narrative needed to tackle Climate Emergency with Emily Shuckburgh
Emily's Dilemma: Truth or Scale of Climate Change? With Emily Shuckburgh Join Nik Gowing, Founder and Director of the Thinking the Unthinkable project, as he discusses the deepening climate, nature, and biodiversity crises with leading experts. In this episode, climate scientist Emily Shuckburgh, Director of Cambridge Zero at the University of Cambridge, shares how we can change the narrative
