Both Sides Now
Both Sides Now is a political podcast co-founded in 2022 by Eve McCallum and Finn Ross to combat political polarisation and engage youth. It features interviews with high-profile politicians and journalists from across the political spectrum, including six Prime Ministers. For the 2026 election year, the show returns with a new co-host, Alex Martin, and a focus on women in politics, aiming to share their stories and inspire other women.
Episodes
Youth voting, debates, gangs and child cancer treatment
This week on Both Sides Now, we’re kicking things off with a bit of international chaos, from Shane Gillis’ monologue to Trump reportedly giving his press secretary just five days in the job.Back home, the clock is ticking for young voters to get enrolled, with the deadline hitting midnight on 25 October. We chat about the enrolment changes, why youth turnout matters, and why politics affects pret
Debates, billionaires, the latest policy drop and strategic voting
This week on Both Sides Now, we’re breaking down the election debates, the latest policy drops, and whether strategic voting could shake up the election.We kick things off with the debates: did Winston Peters come out on top in the kingmakers’ showdown and was a relatively uneventful performance actually a win for Luxon? Plus, the NZ Herald’s Future of NZ debate gets a big tick from us — if you wa
The Tax Tea Part Two with Shamubeel Eaqub
We’ve talked tax with Brad Olsen. Now we’re hearing it from a different angle.This time on Both Sides Now, we’re joined by Simplicity economist Shamubeel Eaqub to ask some pretty basic questions that somehow get very complicated very quickly.Is our tax system actually fair? Are we taxing the right things? Should we be taxing wealth differently? And is government debt really the ticking time bomb w
The Tax Tea Part One with Brad Olsen
Tax is everywhere in this election — but how much are politicians actually telling us?This week on Both Sides Now, we sit down with economist Brad Olsen to spill The Tax Tea and get into the stuff that tends to get left out of the campaign slogans.Is our tax system actually fair? What taxes should we have — and what shouldn’t we be taxing? Is debt really the big problem politicians make it out to
What is dirty work and is it really dirty? this weeks policy drop and the last week in parliament
We kick things off with the Hager book — the latest political bombshell making waves in Wellington. We get into what’s in it, the reaction it’s sparked, and what it all means with the election just around the corner. To give the book some context Eve shares her experience of working at the Taxpayers Union. Then it’s another big week of policy drops, starting with Supermarkets 3.0 — Labour's pl
Dr Mike Turner demystifies polls, AI in politics and campaigning
This week on Both Sides Now, we’re joined by Freshwater Strategy's Dr Mike Turner, International pollster and political researcher, for a chat about pretty much everything you could want to know about politics and campaigning.We start with where the NZ election is at, what the latest polls are telling us and, perhaps more importantly, what they aren’t telling us. Mike takes us through how poll
Ed v Mackelmore, more supermarket policy, training wages for u20s, and more!
This week on Both Sides Now, we kick things off with Ed Sheeran vs Macklemore, has Ed made the right call?Then we get into the big policy stories of the week: National entering the supermarket chat. Labour taking aim at supermarket price gouging, the Greens putting $200m behind Te Reo Māori, and Te Pāti Māori’s plans for New Zealand’s energy system.And we get into ACT’s small business policy, incl
A whistlestop tour of the NINE new policies announced this week
This week on Both Sides Now, we’re doing a political whistlestop tour because all the parties decided to do a policy dump this week. We start with the Green's KiwiMart. We then run through Labour and ACT's climate change and policies. TPM and ACT’s plans for the Waitangi Tribunal, what do these policies surpassingly have in common? We then go into Labour's AI policy, National’s first-home buyer an
Student loans, women's health policy and climate change
This week on Both Sides Now we kick things off with National’s student loan policy. What is National actually proposing, who stands to benefit, and does it meaningfully change the picture for young New Zealanders trying to get ahead?Then we turn to health, with a particular focus on women’s health and the latest announcements in this space. We look at what the parties are promising and why young p
Mike Casey on what politicians can do to make your petrol and power bills cheaper
We sit down with Rewiring Aotearoa's Mike Casey for a wide-ranging conversation about one of the biggest costs facing New Zealanders: energy.We get into power and petrol, and ask what can politicians actually do to make your power bill and petrol bill cheaper? We talk about the practical policy changes that could make a difference, what’s getting in the way, and whether politicians are making
Te Pāti Māori, an adult conversation on tax (is that even possible?) and leaders debates
This week on the podcast, we get stuck into Te Pāti Māori’s decision to campaign for the candidate vote only and what it means for MMP, the Māori electorates and the wider election campaign.Then we attempt something that seems increasingly difficult in politics: having an adult conversation about tax. What should we actually be taxing, why do we tax it, and what does a fair tax system look l
Leadership coup round 2, Opportunity on 8%, and Labour who?
This week on the podcast: leadership coup round two. And somehow, it was even more of a mess. If you are feeling overwhelmed by it all, don't worry, so are we!We unpack what actually happened inside National, why Chris Penk decided to make a move, who knew what and when, and what the whole saga says about Christopher Luxon’s leadership heading into the election. Luxon survived his second lead
Laura McClure on AI deep fakes, voting Labour and the manosphere
This week on Both Sides Now we sit down with ACT MP Laura McClure for a wide-ranging conversation about her journey into politics and some of the issues she’s been pushing since entering Parliament.We chat about her bill tackling AI-generated deepfakes, why she thinks the law needs to catch up with rapidly developing technology, and what should happen when AI is used to create misleading or harmfu
Youth unemployment and the future of work, ruling out Opportunity and AI data centers
It's a slightly longer episode this week, but there was no shortage of topics to cover. We start by briefly discuss Winston Peters' latest remarks before turning to one of the biggest challenges facing New Zealand: youth unemployment. We discuss why more young people are struggling to find work, whether our education system is preparing people for the jobs of the future, and how AI is already chan
Stuart Nash (gross), consent laws and funflation
Another busy week in politics, and we're unpacking the stories behind the headlines.We start with the fallout from Stuart Nash's comments suggesting women who take time off to have children are "lazy". Were his comments taken out of context, or do they reflect a wider attitude towards unpaid care and parenting? We discuss why the comments have generated such a strong reaction and what they tell us
Celebrity politicians, Count Binface and a wahs jersey
This week we're talking celebrity politicians after Paul Henry announced he's standing for ACT. Is this the start of a trend, or just another reminder that politics and entertainment are becoming harder to tell apart? We also look at the UK's Count Binface, who might be a joke candidate on paper but ends up making some surprisingly sharp points.With the regulated period just around the corner, we
What are politicians doing to help reduce your power bill? Plus social media bans, citizens voting and Matariki
This week on Both Sides Now, we unpack two similar approaches to making solar power more accessible by National and Labour. Despite being from opposite sides of the spectrum we discuss the importance of seeing the two main political parties largely in alignment on New Zealand's energy future. We also discuss the government's proposed social media ban for young people and the role of VPNs. We share
What is going on with the Conservation Amendment Bill? Plus emergency housing, Opportunity and AI ads
This week on the podcast we're unpacking the Conservation Amendment Bill and separating the facts from the politics. There's been plenty of debate about what the Bill actually does, so we take a look at what's changing, why it's causing such a stir, and whether the concerns being raised stack up.We also dive into the Government's KPIs for emergency housing. What are they trying to achieve, are the
A beginners guide to our weird voting system MMP
Ever wondered how New Zealand's voting system actually works? In this episode, we're joined by our old university lecturer, Professor Andrew Geddis, for a deep dive into MMP – the system that shapes every election and every government.We unpack how MMP works, why New Zealand adopted it, what your party vote and electorate vote actually do, and clear up some of the biggest misconceptions about our
Definition of a woman, Labour has some new policies and scrutiny week
This week on the podcast, we begin by discussing our episode with Q Opportunity Party leader. We then unpacked the government's proposed Definition of a Woman Bill and looked at the legal, political, and social debates surrounding it. We discussed what the bill would actually do, why it has generated so much attention, and whether it has any realistic chance of becoming law.We also took a look at
Opportunity party leader Qiulae Wong on the new Opportunity Party, left v right divide and Mt Albert campaign
She's the woman hoping to pull off one of the biggest upsets in New Zealand's MMP history. Qiulae Wong — known as 'Q' — is the new leader of the Opportunity Party, and she joins us on Both Sides Now to talk about what needs to change in NZ politics, why the left-right divide is holding the country back, and her mission to get Opportunity into Parliament for the very first time.We talk about her ca
Stalking, climate change litigation and do polls really matter?
In this weeks episode we examine the Government's new stalking legislation, which will create a standalone stalking offence for the first time in New Zealand. We discuss why existing laws have often failed to adequately capture patterns of obsessive and threatening behaviour, what conduct the new offence will cover, and whether the proposed penalties and protections strike the right balance.We the
Budget breakdown - what is it, why is it important and what's in it for you
It's Budget week, which means we've dedicated this episode to breaking down the Government's biggest announcement of the year.We talk through what the Budget actually is, why politicians and the media obsess over it every May, and what this year's decisions tell us about the Government's priorities. We look at the key spending announcements, where the money is going, and w
Breakdown of Nicole McKee, changes to family carers law, public service cuts and more!
This week on the podcast, politics delivered another packed agenda and we covered it all — from our interview with Nicole McKee and what she had to say about ACT’s priorities in Government, through to the latest debates dominating Wellington.We unpacked the Government’s proposed changes to the family carers legislation and the difficult balancing act between recognising carers, managing costs, and
Hon Nicole McKee on firearms, family and her political career
In this episode, we sit down with Hon Nicole McKee to discuss the issues that have defined both her political career and her personal journey. From firearm reform and the aftermath of the Christchurch mosque attacks, to the realities of being a Māori woman in politics, Nicole shares candid insights into some of New Zealand’s most debated topics.We talk about why firearms matter to many New Zealand
Fees free, breakdown of Desley Simpson, grievance driven politics and birth rates
This week on the podcast, we covered a LOT — from the government’s surprise Fees Free announcement hot off the press, a breakdown of our episode with Deputy Mayor Desley Simpson and what the UK local council elections might signal globally as Reform makes major gains.We unpacked the new Helen Clark Foundation social cohesion report, including the striking finding that 28% of people feel alienated
Deputy Mayor Desley Simpson on Leadership, Local Government, and Auckland’s Future
In this episode, we sit down with Deputy Mayor of Auckland Desley Simpson to unpack the realities of local government, leadership during crisis, and why local politics deserves far more attention especially from young people.A key theme throughout the conversation is the disconnect between people and local government. While councils shape everyday life from transport to infrastructure many voters
Breakdown of Wayne Eagleson, Tova v the PM, FTAs and Shane Jones
Big episode this week. We unpack the Wayne Eagleson interview and what it reveals behind the scenes, then dive into the leadership confidence vote and what it signals for the party moving forward. We also break down Christopher Luxon’s call to pull out of his scheduled interviews with Tova O'Brien and what that says about his media strategy. On the policy front, we get into the India FTA — wh
Former Chief of Staff Wayne Eagleson on the machinery of government, being a political staffer and what makes a great PM
In this episode, we're joined by former Chief of Staff to the Prime Minister, Wayne Eagleson, for a behind-the-scenes look at how government really works.We get into his career at the centre of power, what separates good PMs from great ones, and the real role political staffers play (beyond the headlines). Wayne shares how decisions get made under pressure, what loyalty and judgment look like
Breakdown of Barbara Edmonds Episode, public sector grad roles, Eve has watched Prime Minister and the cabinet reshuffle
We unpack our takeaways from Barbara Edmonds’ latest interview, dive into the growing fuel crisis, and talk about the tough reality facing grads with fewer public sector roles available.Plus, Eve shares her thoughts after watching Prime Minister, and we break down the recent cabinet reshuffle — were the right calls made?Tune in for sharp insights and real talk on the issues shaping Aotearoa right
Hon Barbara Edmonds on family, election promises and working for National
We are so excited for you to hear this one, we chat with Barb for a refreshingly honest conversation about life inside and outside Parliament. She opens up about raising a big family, her time working for National, and why community has always been at the centre of everything she does.She shares why she's not making big promises about “fixing the economy” this election, what she thinks voters
Breakdown of Nicola Willis' interview, petrol prices, COVID-19 Royal Commission and a super rugby update
We begin by reviewing our interview with Nicola Willis. We unpack the growing conflict involving the US, Israel and Iran, and how it’s starting to ripple into everyday life here — particularly through oil prices, petrol costs, and the wider cost of living in Aotearoa.On the domestic front, we go through the newly released Royal Commission COVID-19 Lessons Learned Phase 2 report. We also touch on t
Hon Nicola Willis on Pay Equity, Mum guilt and how her leadership style compares with Jacinda Ardern
Finance Minister Nicola Willis joins the podcast for a candid conversation about the pressures and priorities of political leadership. From the debate around pay equity to the reality of mum guilt while holding one of the country’s most demanding jobs, Nicola shares how she navigates family, finance, and public scrutiny.She also reveals the policy she believes every politician should be talking ab
2026 Preview and Predictions
We are back and Eve is joined by a new co-host, Alex Martin.In this first episode, we share our predictions for the political year ahead and talk through stories and issues we think will shape the months to come. We also outline what we’re planning for the podcast this season and the kinds of conversations we want to have along the way. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Former White House Deputy Chief of Staff Chris Liddell Speed Round
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Former White House Deputy Chief of Staff Chris Liddell on his time working for Donald Trump, American politics and his work to help New Zealand
This was an epic chat with the kiwi who spent 4 years having daily meetings with the most powerful man in the world. He chats about his time in the White House, politics in the United States and how he's helping to shape the future of New Zealand. Chris has done very little media in New Zealand so don't miss the chance to hear directly from someone who was once the most influential kiwi
James Meager MP Speed Round
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
New MP James Meager on his proudest achievement, his future goals in politics and his Maiden Speech
This was an epic chat with new MP James Meager where we chatted about everything from climate change, to the treaty, to what his proudest achievements are outside of politics and the impact his new career will have on his personal life. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Eve and Finn share their thoughts on the campaign
Catch Eve and Finn sharing how they think the campaign has gone and what we can expect in the coming weeks! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
TOP Leader Raf Manji Speed Round
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Raf Manji on TOP, what the polls don't show about their chances and the current MP who considered making the move
Eve and Finn would both agree that theres many things in TOP they would both vote for. This was a great chat where we explored more about who TOP are, what they would bring to Parliament and why voting for them isn't a wasted vote. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Paddy Gower speed(ish) round
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Paddy Gower on leaders debates, being in the press gallery and journalism in NZ
We had an epic conversation with Paddy Gower, we covered everything from his career in the media, to how he prepares for the leaders debates, to many stories from throughout his career in the media. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Jack Tame Speed Round
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Jack Tame on the media, polarisation and elections.
This week we changed things up and caught up with New Zealand journalist and TV presenter Jack Tame to discuss the state of the media in New Zealand and globally, their role in polarisation and elections. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Christopher Luxon Speed Round
Listen to hear Chris's thoughts on police carrying hand guns, who he would give a knighthood too, Te Reo in schools and more Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Christopher Luxon on his political philosophy, polarisation and the issues facing NZ
We caught up with National Party Leader Christopher Luxon for the first episode of season 2. We covered just about every topic in this interview from polarisation, to climate change, to what Christopher does for fun. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Wrap up of season one of Both Sides Now with Eve and Finn
For the final episode we sat down and discussed some of the highlights of the first season of the podcast and what we have learnt from travelling around NZ and meeting all the politicians that we spoke too. We discuss things such as our favourite episode, where we think NZ should sit on the political spectrum and what surprised us most about each other! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for m
Hon Nikki Kaye Speed Round
Listen to hear the Hon Nikki Kaye's speed round(ish) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Hon Nikki Kaye on being a liberal MP in the National Party, beating PM Jacinda Ardern in Auckland central and being a young MP
The Hon Nikki Kaye was education minister under the John Key lead National Government and won the traditionally left seat of Auckland Central for the National Party for the first time. Throughout Nikki's time in the National Party she was known for being one of the most liberal MPs in the caucus. She talks about what it was like disagreeing with her own caucus. This is also a great yarn for
Metiria Turei Speed Round
Listen in to hear Metiria's speed round! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Former Green Party Co Leader Metiria Turei debates greed, equality and racism in NZ
Being a former co leader of the Green Party Eve found this interview one of the more challenging as Metiria sits on the complete opposite side of the political spectrum. However, Metiria’s openness to discussion and debate allowed both of us to learn a lot from the discussion. What was most apparent from her interview was her unrelenting drive to want to improve life for those who are struggling o
Sir Roger Douglas Speed Round
Listen in to hear the speed round with Sir Roger! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Sir Roger Douglas on Rogernomics, moving from Labour to ACT and NZ politics today
Roger Douglas is one of the absolute legends of New Zealand politics, we would have loved to have the cameras rolling as soon as we arrived at his house because we were straight into some epic political conversations. Roger Douglas is most well known for Rogernomics, his suite of neoliberalism policies he enacted as finance minister that was relatively controversial in the 1980’s. Roger then went
Rt Hon Jim Bolger talks International Relations, Capital Gains Tax and the art of being PM
We went and caught up with former National Prime Minister of 7 years the Rt Hon Jim Bolger. Finn particularly enjoyed this interview, ‘a man after my own heart’ with Jim answering the question on what is the biggest challenge NZ is facing the same as Finn, inequality and climate change. Jim told us some classic stories including talking Nukes with Bill Clinton on the back of a boat and about his e
Political Ideologies
At the start of every podcast, we ask each politician what their political ideology is. Have a listen to hear what our 11 guests said to this question! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Te Ururoa Falvell Speed Round
Listen in to hear Te Ururoa's answers to our 20 question speed round Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Te Ururoa Flavell on Co Governance, the Treaty and The Maori Party
Was a great discussion this week with former Maori Party Co Leader Te Ururoa Flavell where we talked Co-Governance and learnt some new context for this discussion that there were more Maori than European when the Treaty was signed, now its the opposite. Te Ururoa was super open about how devastated he was about the loss post-2017 election and the work that New Zealand still has to do to honour the
Sir Geoffrey Palmer discusses rights, the RMA and threats to democracy
We met with former Prime Minister Sir Geoffrey at the gorgeous Wellington law building. Our cameraman Thomas said during the interview he was admiring all the books Geoffrey had collected in his big library when to his surprise he realised all the books were written by Geoffrey! This epitomises Geoffrey Palmer, he carries an incomprehensible amount of knowledge and has contributed more to legislat
Climate Change Minister James Shaw Speed Round
Does James think we should have a sugar tax? Listen to his speed round to find out. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Climate Change Minister James Shaw discusses his Green Party Co Leadership, Farming and the Environment
James Shaw is well regarded on the right of politics despite being from NZ’s furthest left party, being the co leader of the Greens. We had some great discussion on how effective some of the key policies are that he leads as minister for climate change and how long he expects to be in office. Check out this awesome discussion now ! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Shane Jones Speed Round
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Shane Jones on leaving Labour, New Zealand first and Co Governance
Shane Jones was the most straight up interview we had. This made for one of the easiest conversations of the series. Shane talked to us about his time in both the Labour Party and New Zealand First. He provided an insight into New Zealand First and his thoughts on the liberal movement that is becoming increasingly intertwined with New Zealand Politics. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for m
Dame Jenny Shipley Speed Round
Will Dame Jenny share Sir John Key's answer about voting for Donald Trump in 2016? Listen to find out. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Dame Jenny Shipley discusses women in leadership, the Treaty and making decisions
We were privileged to get to speak with Dame Jenny Shipley, New Zealand's first female Prime Minister. She talked openly with us about the challenges faced with being a woman in politics in the 90s. What was also of particular interest was her ability to make decisions. When asked about her decision to cut benefits in 1991 as Minister of Social Development, she unequivocally said that she got
Hon Chris Hipkins Speed Round
As part of some of the episodes, we have a bonus speed round to go with them. Here is Hon Chris Hipkins! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Hon Chris Hipkins on Labour, Democracy and Big Brother
The Hon Chris Hipkins was our first current politician, we met him in the beehive for an awesome interview. As Minister for Education, Police and Covid Response Chris is one of the most influential politicians of our time and we thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. Chris exemplified what we are trying to achieve at Both Sides Now by having a book case full of political books from both the right a
Sir John Key Speed Round
At the end of most of the episodes, we recorded a speed round where we asked the politicians 20 yes/no/short answer questions. Sir John gave us a few surprise answers in his, including a controversial opinion on Trump! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Sir John Key
This was one of the most epic conversations both Eve and I have had. We could have talked to John for hours, we both came away with hundreds more questions we wanted to ask and a even more respect for John and his legacy. Finn got a chance to debate with John on tax and inequality and Eve was able to pull to the surface the polices John wished he had been able to get across. This was one of the in
Preview
Have a listen to hear what Both Sides Now is all about! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
