The Rest Is Money
Robert Peston and Steph McGovern bring you insightful business and finance stories. They delve into key challenges and opportunities facing today's business world, from tech investments to political decisions affecting global markets. Each episode offers expert analysis on market regulations, economic recovery, and the future of work, featuring insights from influential leaders and entrepreneurs.
Episodes
319. How to fill the Chancellor’s hole, with Dan Neidle
Is a Smorgasbord of tax rises the best way to raise money? Should the capital gains tax rate be aligned with income tax? What about increased taxes on banks?
Dan Neidle is back to tell Robert and Steph what he’d do in the upcoming Budget. Plus, how Reeves was punished by the ONS’s crazy estimates of how much holiday we take
The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smar
318. What’s the cost of Andy Burnham's big plans?
Why was Burnham’s speech such an important economic and political reset? Is his promise of an NHS model for social care all it seems? Burnham has raised the possibility of rejoining the EU, but would European leaders welcome us back?
Robert has been in Liverpool at Labour Conference. He and Steph break down the big moments from Andy Burnham's speech, and ask whether, behind the bold ambitions,
317. Why the UK must not drop climate leadership
How to win the net-zero argument with voters again? Why the transition will make us richer? Are the Paris warming targets irredeemably lost? How has China led the way?Robert discusses with world-leading climate economist Lord [Nicholas] Stern why so many voters have downgraded climate concerns, and what can be done about it.
Nick's book is published by Open Access and is free to read and download
316. Why the world’s economic glue is becoming unstuck
Given the militaristic ambitions of Russia, China and America, how close are we to a catastrophic trade shock? Even without such a shock, do we face years of higher inflation because of the new frictions and costs in global supply chains? And why is the British government the last government to end the tax break exploited by SHEIN and Temu?
Robert discusses the hidden and important
315. Why we should all care about Japan’s rising rates
Is Trump’s handling of America’s 40 trillion debt burden about to start a global financial crisis? Why is US Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent selling Euros to buy Japanese Yen? And why are Western leaders worrying about Japanese interest rates going up?
As credit conditions in the US drive up borrowing costs across the world, Robert and Steph talk to hedge fund boss Patrick Boyle about what’s
314. Why do the tech bros really want more regulation?
Why has the Al growth-at-all costs plan hit a credibility wall? Is this really about safety? Or are Al bosses trying to keep out more competition? Is pacing realistically enforceable across borders? And could this make tech companies like anti-competitive banks? Plus, where does all this leave presidents Trump versus Xi?
After a dramatic week in the world of Al with apocalyptic warnings and sto
313. Ruth Curtice: middle earners need to be taxed more
How much of a buffer does the chancellor have now? What taxes might we need to put up? How does the tax burden on UK workers compare to other countries? Why might middle earners need to pay more?
Ruth Curtice from the Resolution Foundation is back to tell us about what the Rachel Reeves tax rises did to the UK tax wedge and where this leaves John Healey now.
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312. What's missing from Healey's growth plan?
The chancellor says we're turning a corner, but into what? He wants ministers to take more risks, so what does that mean? Why was their nothing that directly addresses the UK’s vulnerability to a debt crisis? The North is getting a new fund for businesses to scale up - will it make a difference? And what can we learn from microchipping cats?
Robert and Steph dissect the Chancellor's first big s
311. Why is the US debt crisis a big problem for Burnham?
Are we at risk of a global financial crisis? What’s driving it? And why is the UK being punished more than other countries? Is reforming the pensions triple lock part of the answer?
It’s been a wild time on the bond markets, with UK gilts yields at record highs. Robert and Steph explain why global inflation, the state of government borrowing and US tech firms turning to the debt markets fo
310. Gordon Brown: ‘I’d tell Trump he’s unpopular’
Former Prime Minister Gordon Brown says fixing broken communities is an economic emergency, but how do we do it?
Burnham’s fiscal devolution? Could social impact bonds work? How do we extract more tax from the super wealthy? What about the shattered world order—can that be mended? What would he say to Trump now if he were PM? And as the man who gave independence to the Bank of England, does he
309. Why we’re wasting our time predicting the future of AI
Is it possible for us to shape how AI is used rather than have tech firms decide for us? Should the UK government be looking to create our own ChatGPT? Or would open source AI be better for public services? How do we make sure we don’t hand over all our valuable NHS data to a US tech firm?
Dr Laura Gilbert CBE – senior director of AI at the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change talks to Steph
308. The 4 challenges (and the biggest opportunity) facing the new PM
Does Burnham’s government have a credible growth plan? Are the fiscal rules still fit for purpose? How can Whitehall be reformed for the AI age - and who will pay tax if AI leads to widespread job losses?
Robert discusses the major challenges facing Burnham and Healey with Lord O’Donnell, former Cabinet Secretary under three British prime ministers.
The Rest is Money is brought to you by Oct
307. The world’s most influential economist: how we can deliver "worker-friendly AI"
How damaging to us is the obsession of Anthropic, Google and Open AI with creating AI super intelligence? How can political leaders set a new path for AI, that would enrich workers rather than replace them? And is the falling birth rate actually good for us?
In the second part of Robert’s interview with Nobel prize-winning economist Daron Acemoglu, about his influential new book, “what happened
306. The world’s most influential economist: Tax wealth and break up big tech
How do we revive living standards and restore confidence in liberal democracy? Is the link between productivity and wages permanently broken? What is working-class liberalism? Why should Andy Burnham’s first budget raise taxes on capital while cutting taxes on employment? And why are tech giants like Google and Amazon twice as wealthy as the British Empire at its peak?
Robert investigates how t
305. The Apprentice Unicorn - Euan Blair on rewiring investment and training
Why is it taking so long to get people trained in AI? Should we be devolving education powers to employers instead of Mayors? Is the replacement for the Apprenticeship levy any good? Why is it so hard for companies here to raise money from British investors?
Steph talks to Euan Blair, CEO of Multiverse - the UK’s first British EdTech business valued at over a billion - about the future of work.
304. Why Burnham’s best economic policy would be “do nothing”
How can the government persuade UK companies and households to invest and spend their record cash holdings? Why is Donald Trump’s unpredictability failing to destroy economic growth? Why is it so difficult to assess whether a lethal AI bubble currently exists?
Robert discusses the risks and opportunities in today’s world of extreme financial, technological and political risks with Karen Ward, chi
303. Why making schools truly comprehensive is vital for our economy
Why do secondary schools fail so many young people? Whose fault is it? What does good vocational education look like? He says the hard hat is just as important as the graduation cap, but does Andy Burnham really get it?
With A-Level and GCSE results due out, Steph’s launched a day to celebrate the millions of people getting vocational qualifications. To mark this we take the show to a thriving
302. Can the West bridge the gap with China, India and the BRICs+ nations?
How fixable is the schism between the rich developed countries, led by the US, and the faster-growing BRICS+ group, led by China, Russia, and India? Can these emerging powerhouses truly detach themselves from the dollar-dominated financial system? And on which critical issues must we work collaboratively with them to avoid global disaster?
Robert and Steph chat with Lord Jim O’Neill, the former G
301. Why the US won't stop China in the AI race
Are we in an AI bubble? Does it matter that Chinese AI firms are banned from using American chips? How big is the chance of an AI crash? Can an AI business survive without energy generation capabilities?
Azeem Azhar – the founder of the leading research platform Exponential View – joins us to tell us about his report on the state of the AI economy. Plus, Robert and Steph find out what Azeem le
300. Does Burnham get AI?
What parts of AI does the UK have to control to secure ourselves against enemies? Does Burnham understand how important AI is for growth and security? Are entrepreneurs less welcome in the UK now? Why should the government support a ‘freedom to fail’ funding and business culture?
Matt Clifford wrote Starmer’s AI action plan. He is a tech investor and co-founder of the billion dolla
299. Trump’s new tariffs - can anyone win a trade war?
How has Donald Trump got away with bringing in new tariffs when the last lot were ruled unlawful? Why is the UK in a worse position than the EU now? Are trade wars always bad? Had anyone ever won one without harming themselves? Are we ever going to get back to free trade?
Robert and Steph are joined by economist and FT columnist Soumaya Keynes, self-confessed trade nerd and author of ‘How to win
298. Why Healey as Chancellor? And can he find the money?
John Healey is the Chancellor to increase defence spending to 3% of GDP, but how will he pay for it? Would war bonds do the trick? Is a cut in electricity VAT and a rise in income tax thresholds helping the right people? What will it take to build enough council houses?
With the surprise appointment of former defence secretary John Healey as Burnham's new Chancellor, we look at whether he can re
297. How do we reshape our workforce in the AI era?
What should the government be doing to get us AI ready? How do we make sure people co-exist with AI and aren't just replaced by it? What role should trade unions have? What are 'tech towns' and how important are they in the AI race?
Nobel prize winning economist Simon Johnson is back to tell us about his role as the chair of the government’s AI Institute which will use workplace data shared by
296. Gary Stevenson- how would a wealth tax help those on low incomes?
What impact would a 2% wealth tax on people with £10 million have? If you tax the rich more will it bring down the cost of living for everyone else? How will this help the shortfall of affordable homes? What about the North South divide? Will it reduce the one million NEETs the country has? Will it grow the economy?
Inequality economist Gary Stevenson is back to tell us why taxing millionai
295. Jim O’Neill – The man shaping Burnhamomics
If fiscal devolution is central to Burnham’s plans, how do we make sure the money is not wasted by mayors and councils? How can Burnham avoid market mayhem if he invests significantly more? Would it be crazy to break up the Treasury? Why is scrapping the pensions triple lock essential?
Former U.K. Treasury Minister and ex Goldman Sachs chair Jim O’Neill has been advising Andy Burnham on the
294. Gary Stevenson – Is being a city trader bad?
Is it fair that city traders can make loads of money betting on the economy’s demise? Are people with working class backgrounds better at trading? How do you go from making millions on a trade floor to becoming obsessed with wealth inequality?
In the first of our two-part series, we sit down with economist Gary Stevenson. He tells us how he made millions by betting on our economic decline, and wh
293. A Nobel Prize winning view on wealth inequality
Why are some countries richer than others, even though money, people and ideas can flow freely round the world? Why is it so hard for a country to turn things around and become rich? Are illiberal leaders like Trump good for their economy? What role do sovereign wealth funds play?
Nobel prize winning economist Simon Johnson gives us his theory on the damage extractive institutions do to wealth
292. The £6 trillion pot we should use to grow the economy
How do we unlock trillions of pounds of long term capital and keep it in the UK? What can we learn from a brewery in Newcastle and the Vimto factory in Manchester? Why don’t more people invest in start-ups and scale-ups? Is it all about tax incentives?
Nigel Wilson is the former CEO of the financial giant Legal and General who has funnelled billions of pounds of pension and insurance money into
291. Does Burnham have any wiggle room?
How much can Burnham re-engineer the fiscal rules? Should he stick to a manifesto that has already been trampled over? Who should he choose to be chancellor? Will the markets approve?
The former director of the IFS is back to tell us about the constraints and opportunities the new prime minister will have to get the economy growing and improve living standards. Listen to Robert and Steph’s int
290. Can Burnham’s ‘business friendly socialism’ grow the economy?
Why are each of us £15,000 a year worse off than we should be? What can we learn from the US about housing? Can ‘Manchesterism’ work across the UK? How much is the triple lock state pension holding back young people?
Paul Johnson, former director of the IFS, is back to tell us about his new research on The Prosperity Gap and what it means for the new Prime Minister. Plus why Count Binface shou
289. Why we need fewer civil servants
Can Andy Burnham’s civil service employ fewer but more productive officials? Is it fair to blame Brexit and Covid for the rising headcount? Is the government buying British the best growth policy? How the government can save £30bn a year by being more efficient.
Tech boss Stephen Kelly - former CEO of Sage Group - tells us about working with David Cameron’s government to make £50bn in public s
288. Which politician is the worst tax dodger?
Should political leaders show us their tax returns in detail? Are the financial questions concerning Farage about tax or something else? Which politicians were careless and which were more culpable?
Robert and Steph chat with Dan Neidle who reveals his investigations into the financial affairs of several high-profile politicians.
The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’
287. Dan Neidle: forget wealth taxes, do this instead
Will all the rich people leave if we slap a wealth tax on them? How have plans for a 5% billionaire tax in California gone down? Is tax the best way to redistribute wealth more fairly?
Former tax lawyer Dan Neidle is back to tell us why he thinks the theories of influential economists Gabriel Zucman and Thomas Piketty are all pie in the sky. So what would he do instead? Listen to Robert and St
286. Dan Neidle: Pubs don’t deserve a VAT cut
Why is cutting VAT for specific sectors a bad idea? Should there be a flat rate on everything, including the things currently exempt? Why does cutting business rates only benefit landlords? Are we keeping too many inefficient businesses going?
Dan Neidle from Tax Policy Associates is back to explain why he thinks no one deserves special treatment when it comes to VAT and business rates. Plus why
285. Can Europe escape American tech dependency?
Why did Nick Clegg quit Meta, and what does he really think about Silicon Valley? Why are tech bosses so greedy? And how can Europe catch up in the AI race?
Robert sits down with Nick Clegg (former UK Deputy Prime Minister and Meta's ex-President of Global Affairs) to discuss how the UK can once again become a tech and economic powerhouse.
The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy,
284. Is it time to smash the economic consensus?
Should it be about the pre-distribution, rather than re-distribution, of wealth? Will that create an economy with fewer billionaires? How would it work in practice? Is it even possible given the balance of power lies with the rich?
Leading economist Professor Mariana Mazzucato is back to tell us why her theory on ‘The Common Good’ is a game changer for Western economies. Plus does she think Gab
283. Does the UK need to be rich?
Is the UK stuck in a debt and tax doom loop, and how do we get out? How do we cut welfare spending? How important is it to give regional mayors more agency over tax and spending? And what can we learn from Mississippi?
Robert and Steph talk to former Chancellor Jeremy Hunt about his take on the economy now he's not running the Treasury, as detailed in his new book 'Can we be rich again?'. Plus
282. Are politicians living in a tax-and-spend dream world?
Are the government plans to help low income households hitting the right spot? Is there too much focus on symptoms and not causes? Could fiscal devolution happen too quickly? Why does the IMF often give the UK a rough ride on forecasts?
Paul Johnson - former director of the IFS - is back to give us his take on the economic reforms being discussed across the political sphere. Plus Robert puts hi
281. How to tax billionaires
How many billionaires are there in the world? How much has their wealth grown by? Why do lots of billionaires pay almost no income tax? How much of a problem are tax havens? Would a 2% global wealth tax (on people with over $100million) work in practice?
Robert and Steph talk to prominent economist Gabriel Zucman about his decades long research on wealth inequality and discuss the pros and cons
280. Should the government set food prices?
Would a voluntary agreement between supermarket bosses and the Chancellor to cap the prices of food basics help those struggling on low incomes? Is the biggest threat to the UK now higher inflation or higher unemployment? And could Andy Burnham, as Prime Minister, take control of water and energy without destroying the public finances?
Steph and Robert discuss Rachel Reeves’ plans to protect livi
279. Why SMEs want more than verbal enthusiasm from politicians
Is the government doing enough to prioritise British SMEs in its defence spending plans? Should price always come first or should more expensive British made goods be the priority? Or are we in danger of propping up zombie business? And with rising energy and employment costs, how hard is it to be a UK manufacturer now?
With the government aiming to increase UK SME defence spending by fifty pe
278. Can any Starmer rival rescue the economy?
Has Labour got what it takes to deliver growth? Is a change in leadership going to help? How might Rayner, Burnham or Streeting fair against the bond markets? Could a plan to shift the tax burden away from working people and on to assets be the answer?
As the chaos in Westminster continues, and government borrowing costs reach a 28 year high, Robert and Steph discuss what it will take to get th
277. How to make green energy a vote winner
Why is the UK’s energy pricing system so broken? Why must the transition to green energy be accelerated? And how can we make clean, renewable power the most affordable option for those on low incomes?
Robert joins Emma Pinchbeck, CEO of the Climate Change Committee, to discuss the misunderstood parts of our energy system and what the UK’s shift to renewables actually looks like.
The Rest is
276. Will bond market vigilantes see off Starmer’s rivals?
Could the government’s creditors protect Starmer and Reeves, even if Labour is humiliated in the elections? How high are UK interest rates going to rise because of Trump’s Iran war? Has monetary policy stopped working? Could AI actually lead to the creation of millions of new jobs? And is coal consumption in the 19th Century a good way to predict this?
Steph and Robert dissect the Bank of Engl
275. The Debt Paradox: Britain’s Hidden Credit Crisis
If household debt as a percentage of GDP is at its lowest since 2002, why are debt charities seeing record levels of demand? Is this a temporary problem because of the cost of living crisis or about much bigger structural problems in the UK economy? Plus, what is ‘co-erced debt’ and why is it a growing problem?
Steph talks to Vikki Brownridge the CEO of the debt advisory charity StepChange abo
274. Would rejoining the EU be the best growth strategy?
How much did Brexit cost the UK? Would rejoining make us much richer? And if US managers are PSG players, are British ones more like Aston Villa’s?
Robert talks to Stanford Professor Nick Bloom about his influential forecast, recently adopted by Rachel Reeves, that quitting the EU made Britain 8% or £240bn poorer than it would otherwise have been.
The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopu
273. How angry are business leaders with the government?
How long will Starmer cling on for? Will politicians sucking up to Northerners make any difference to the North South divide? What’s the latest with the Strait of Hormuz and how is it impacting global prices? How is that feeding through to inflation here? Is Miliband right to stop more oil being drilled in the North Sea and what’s his plan to bring down energy bills?
After another week of Mande
272. Is Anthropic holding businesses to ransom?
Is it fair that only some businesses have access to Anthropic’s super-powerful Mythos AI, given its ability to pierce cyber defences? Will OpenAI go bust? Will Demis Hassabis win the AI wars?
Robert Peston talks to Sebastian Mallaby about his biography of British AI genius Demis Hassabis, The Infinity Machine.
Note: We contacted OpenAI for comment, who told us that 'the article revisits old, w
271. Youth unemployment - a national emergency?
Why are one million young people not in education, employment or training? Is the benefits system part of the problem? Are schools out of date? What’s the alternative?
Steph talks to former health minister Alan Milburn – who is leading a review into NEETS -about the systemic health and structural barriers to work. They discuss the cost to the economy and the alarming stat that if a young person
270. AI minister: How we build a trillion dollar AI company
What’s the point of the government’s new £500m sovereign AI fund? How is the government planning to avert AI Armageddon? Isn’t it time for AI to be permanently in the classroom not banned from it?
Robert talks to AI Minister Kanishka Narayan to explore the government’s strategy for a trillion-dollar British AI ecosystem-and whether the UK can truly scale a sovereign challenger to rival the lik
269. Monzo founder: AI will kill income tax
Why are governments failing to notice how AI is replacing many jobs now? If AI replaces all or most jobs, how can governments replace all the lost taxes? Who will pay for public services and stop us from starving?
Robert sits down with Monzo founder Tom Blomfield to hear his revolutionary plan to reform the tax system for an AI world.
The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy,
268. The price of financial hype
What’s a ‘finfluencer’ and why are they getting in trouble with the regulators? How much of a problem is dodgy tax advice given on social media? What part does financial literacy play in all of this? And is the law finally catching up?
Steph talks to Stella Creasy - MP for Walthamstow and a prominent consumer rights campaigner - about her latest mission to stop the rise of unregulated financia
267. Can AI save the public sector?
What difference would wider adoption of AI have in our struggling public services? Is it the answer to the UK productivity problem? Why does the government struggle to "buy British" when it comes to tech? And could a simple software fix save frontline workers 8 hours of admin a week?
In this episode, Robert and Steph are joined by Alex Stephany, the CEO of Beam, a British ‘GovTech’ success stor
266. Trump Turmoil: An investor's perspective
A month into the war in the Middle East, what are investors thinking? Are we heading for a global recession? Who is most exposed? What are the options central banks and governments have for getting through it? What does this mean for the UK economy? How can the government help people with bills without upsetting the bond markets and increase borrowing costs? Plus, what should you be thinking about
265. Are we due another financial crisis?
What does Lloyd Blankfein - former boss of Goldman Sachs - think is the biggest threat to financial stability? What did he learn from the credit crunch about dealing with risk? Was the investment bank the ‘vampire squid’ it was described as? Plus, why did his cancer diagnosis have to be kept secret?
Lloyd talks to Robert and Steph about his journey from a housing project in Brooklyn to CEO of
264. Why the chair of Iceland Foods is not worried about their energy bills
What is retail boss Richard Walker telling Kier Starmer to do in his new role as the PM’s Cost of Living Tsar? Why does he want a temporary cap on the profits of energy and oil companies? How does a supermarket like Iceland handle the price pressures that come from war in the Middle East? And how worried is he about rising employment costs?
Richard Walker - executive chair of Iceland Foods - t
263. Iran War: protecting the UK economy from the energy crisis
Why is the UK economy the most exposed to the harm from Trump’s Iran war? How should Reeves respond? And with resources so tight, which families should be bailed out from rising energy prices?
Steph and Robert explain why Starmer should not waste this crisis, and should take the bold painful decisions to put Britain on a path to higher growth
Since the recording of this episode, Donald Tr
262. Does the Chancellor have a growth plan at last?
The Chancellor claims she is finally focussed on growth, but is it too little too late? Will the EU agree to improve access for British exporters? How much of our taxes will she transfer to metro mayors and what will they spend it on? And why is she still so far behind the curve on AI?
Robert and Steph mark the PM’s homework, as she says she at last has a plan to make us richer.
The Rest is
261. Dire straits: Should the Royal Navy end the Iran oil blockade?
How will Keir Starmer protect our living standards from the soaring energy costs caused by Trump’s Iran war? Can the Chancellor afford to subsidise our heating bills? And should the Prime Minister say yes to Trump’s request for British minesweeping drones and ships to be sent to the Straits of Hormuz?
Steph and Robert discuss the options available to the government to limit the economic damage
260. Iran War: why the poor will suffer
Why are financial markets still failing to price in the true economic costs of "Trump’s war"? How is the UK facing a "double whammy" of both higher interest rates and declining living standards? Why is it considered "ludicrous" to believe the economy could return to normal quickly, even if the war ended tomorrow?
Robert and Steph are joined by Mohamed El-Erian for an urgent deep dive into what th
259. BONUS: Trump's War - why it's making us poorer
Trump appears to be chickening out again, but has he stopped the wild market fluctuations? Is there another way to move vital energy and commodities that doesn’t involve going through the Strait of Hormuz? How much damage has already been done to the global economy? And what does it mean for your mortgage?
Robert and Steph discuss the latest market turmoil and the wave of companies invoking a “
258. How AI changes everything we should teach kids
Why is AI changing every job? Why is it insane that schools ban students from using it? How did Marc Warner grow his British tech leader Faculty AI into a £1bn-plus company?
Robert and Steph talk exclusively to Marc Warner as he sells Faculty AI to the world’s biggest management consultancy Accenture, hear how he and his data team persuaded Boris Johnson to lock down at the start of Covid, an
257. Iran War: Are investors getting it wrong?
Why hasn’t there been a dramatic increase in the price of oil since Iran’s retaliation aimed at key oil facilities and waterways? Are investors right not to worry too much yet? What will it take to end this? And following Trump’s fury at Starmer over his reluctance to let them use UK air bases, is the special relationship over?
With the continued unrest in the Middle East, Robert and Steph ana
256. Will Trump’s war on Iran sink markets and the global economy?
What are the consequences for oil and gas prices of Iran’s retaliation? Will the primary impact be higher inflation or lower growth, and what does this mean for interest rates? And are we heading for a stock market crash?
Robert and Steph also explain why the war is a nightmare for Rachel Reeves as she prepares tomorrow’s spring statement and for Starmer’s hopes of reducing the cost of living
255. Trump trade tariffs - who is calling the shots?
Did Trump’s two hour ‘state of the union’ speech tell us anything we didn’t know? What’s next for trade tariffs? Will anyone get a tariff refund? And where does all this leave Keir Starmer and his 2025 trade deals with the US?
With the US Supreme Court ruling that Trump overstepped his authority, Robert and Steph discuss what impact trade tariffs have had so far and whether Trump’s new 15% univ
254. The outsider’s edge: How Sir Michael Moritz built a billion-dollar empire
What is the secret to scaling a startup into the next Google, Youtube or Airbnb? Why do you need an American on your board to be as successful as them? And what is Trump really motivated by? Plus why being an outsider can be a superpower in business.
Sir Michael Moritz ran Sequoia Capital for over 35 years and is one of the world’s most successful venture capitalists - he talks to Steph about
253. The truth about immigration - who is coming and who is leaving?
What impact does migration have on the UK economy? Are we heading for net-zero migration and does it matter? Is the so called ‘brain drain’ a real thing? And why do politicians love talking about immigration so much?
Madeline Sumption MBE - Director of Oxford University’s Migration Observatory - talks to Steph about the complex reality behind the numbers. And as they delve into the stats they
252. The £1 trillion war chest: why the UK is stronger than you think
Why can’t the UK shake its "confidence rut" despite having a £1 trillion savings buffer? How are global "populist" spending trends forcing the bond market to act as a fiscal referee? And is the UK actually poised to become an AI superpower?
In this episode, Robert and Steph welcome back Karen Ward, Chief Market Strategist for EMEA at J.P. Morgan Asset Management and former advisor to the Chancell
251. The man who rumbled Mandelson: Dan Neidle's Epstein files investigation
How did friend of the show, tax lawyer Dan Neidle, manage to discover the true extent of Peter Mandelson’s connections to Jeffrey Epstein? What crucial information has Dan pieced together using Blackberry signatures and time zones that reveal what some redacted elements tried to cover up? Has Dan discovered the real reason why Mandelson was prepared to forward sensitive emails almost immediately t
250. Business Secretary Peter Kyle: being let down by Mandelson & the UK-China relationship
Why does Peter Kyle think Mandelson was as brilliant as he was flawed? What impact will the new China deals have on UK growth? And does he care what Trump thinks about them? Plus Kyle’s plans to get the UK’s first trillion dollar company.
Steph and Robert interview the Business Secretary fresh from his visit to China. Plus find out what happened when the interview was interrupted by an evacuat
249. Epstein, Mandelson & the system that failed survivors
How far does Jeffrey Epstein’s dark web extend into the global financial system? How much damage might Peter Mandelson have done by sharing confidential market sensitive details with Epstein? And why, despite decades of being dogged by scandals, has Mandelson kept being let back into senior political roles - and where does this leave Keir Starmer?
Robert and Steph discuss the latest fallout fr
248. How Iran’s uprising has been driven by economic failure
How is the mass civil unrest in Iran, and the brutal killing of protestors, linked to the collapse of living standards? Why have Western sanctions been a blunt tool? And how rife is corruption in the Tehran regime?
In this episode, Steph and Robert examine whether there is a route back to freedom and prosperity for Iran. Esfandyar Batmanghelidj, Founder and CEO of the Bourse & Bazaar Foundati
247. Sir Keir in China & will there be aftershocks from Japan’s bond quake?
What links Japan’s new prime minister with Liz Truss and Margaret Thatcher? Can Keir Starmer balance relations with Beijing without jeopardising ties to Washington? And why are Steph and Robert so worried about the future of hairdressing?
Steph and Robert assess the $7 trillion upheaval in Japan’s bond market and discuss the risks and rewards of Starmer’s visit to China.
They also examine th
246. Why we need more businesses to go bust
Why have US productivity and living standards outstripped the UK’s? Why is it good news that more British businesses are failing? And why is the challenge now to make sure younger, more productive businesses get the capital they need?
Steph and Robert talk to Ruth Curtice, Chief Executive of the Resolution Foundation, about the report card the Resolution Foundation has written on whether the gove
245. The TACO president - Why Trump Always Chickens Out
What is it that makes Trump back down? Why is Mark Carney, a former governor of the Bank of England, one of the only ones standing up to him? How strong is the EU’s hand in all of this? And why is the UK’s dependency on the US about more than trade?
Steph and Robert look at what the latest Trump chaos means for the global economy and why “Britain is America’s lunch” right now.
Email: the
244. Why Lord Frost wants a Thatcher revival
Does the negotiator of Britain’s exit from the EU accept Brexit has failed? What in Liz Truss’s disastrous mini budget does he still endorse? What are his plans to revive the think tank that gave us Thatcherism?
In this episode, Steph and Robert sit down with Lord David Frost - the Brexit negotiator turned head of the Institute of Economic Affairs. They examine whether his climate “realism” i
243. Identity crisis: why the government can't make up its mind about Digital IDs
Are the u-turns on ID cards and business rates bad for the economy? Can the Northern Powerhouse Rail deliver what it’s promising? And why is Donald Trump strong-arming banks and oil companies in a way that looks more like old-fashioned state socialism than free-market capitalism?
Steph and Robert examine Labour’s modernisation agenda and ask whether Donald Trump has swapped free-market economic
242. Ignore the doomsayers - the UK is innovating
Why is Britain’s innovation economy is the strongest in Europe? What can the government do to strengthen it further? And can the UK outperform even America and China?
Steph and Robert sit down with 'professional optimist' Saul Klein, Co-Founder & Executive Chair of Phoenix Court and venture capital investor, who explains why the foundations of new UK enterprise are stronger than at any time si
241. Greenland’s magnetic attraction: why Trump wants it all for himself
Why is the Trump land grab as much about the economic war with China as it is about defence? How is his obsession with Greenland linked to magnets vital to energy, missiles and communication? And why are the PayPal mafia in lead roles?
Steph and Robert assess Trump’s empire building and whether Kier Starmer has finally discovered how to be cheerful about the economy
Email: the
240. Levelling Up 2.0: What Actually Works for Regional Growth?
Why is Slough twice as productive as Mansfield? What’s the secret to reviving the economy in the North? Can we save the high street in 2026?
Steph and Robert speak to Andrew Carter, CEO of Centre For Cities, a leading think tank focussed on how to improve the performance of our towns and cities.
Email: therestismoney@goalhanger.com
