Napkin Math
Join Sabba Keynejad (co-founder of VEED.io) and Charlie Ward (founder of Ramen Club, Ramen Space & Cosy) as they dive deep into the world of startups, AI, and the latest tech trends. These two legends of the London indie scene bring their no-nonsense, real-world insights to help founders, builders, and indie hackers navigate the highs and lows of entrepreneurship. Expect candid conversations, actionable takeaways, and the occasional hot take on where the future of business is headed.
Episodes
How We Reinvented VEED for the AI Era
From building one of the first browser-based video editors to facing an existential threat from AI, Sabba breaks down the hard decisions, failed experiments, and strategic pivots that transformed VEED from a traditional SaaS company into a fast-growing AI platform.Timestamps:00:00 Reinventing VEED for the AI Era02:08 AI Changed Video Creation Forever03:32 Why Listening to Customers Can Be
The Vibe Coding Gold Rush: 3 Ways to Make Your First Million
Three concrete ways to build a million-dollar business on the back of the vibe coding boom. Specialized AI coding tools, security, and education with live napkin math, real company examples, and keyword research throughout.Timestamps:00:00:00 - Intro & The Vibe Coding Opportunity00:03:27 - Way #1: Build a "Lovable for X" (Specialized Vibe Coding Tools)00:26:19 - Way #2: Vibe Coding Se
How Tally Hit $5M ARR by Staying Small & User-Obsessed
Maria Martinez, co-founder of Tally — a bootstrapped form builder that hit over $5M ARR since 2020 — joins Sabba and Charlie to break down how she and her husband Philip built a profitable SaaS business in a fiercely competitive market. From a failed hotel marketplace idea (killed by Covid in Bangkok) to launching a Notion-inspired form builder and growing it entirely through product-led
How to Reduce Churn in Subscription Businesses
A practical breakdown of churn: what it is, why it varies by market, how to tell good churn from bad churn, and the product, marketing, pricing, and activation moves that reduce it. The episode focuses on identifying sticky users, improving time to value, and designing free plans and workflows that convert better. Timestamps:00:00 - Intro to Churn00:01:36 - What Churn Actually Means00:04:
How Yasser Bootstrapped Chatbase to $10M ARR in 3 Years
Yasir, CEO and solo founder of Chatbase, joins Saba and Charlie on the Napkin Math podcast to break down how he bootstrapped an AI customer support platform from a PDF chatbot side project to $10M ARR in just 3 years — starting before ChatGPT even launched. He shares the real story behind going viral, hitting $1M ARR in 4 months, the chaos of early growth, why he stayed bootstrapped, and
How Ben Pasternak took Sabba's App and made millions
A founder's stolen app, AI image gold rushes, and why London might just be the next Silicon Valley — all on the back of a napkin.Timestamps:00:00 - Intro00:41 - The stolen app story08:54 - Lessons from the App Store11:36 - Vibe shuffles & business opportunities20:00 - Vibe coding education24:36 - ChatGPT image model28:31 - AI designer niches37:36 - Cursor's $60B acquisition40:57 - Lon
$1 Million Wellness Apps Hiding in Plain Sight
Saba and Charlie break down the $6.8 trillion wellness industry — period tracking, peptides, air quality, and sleep tech — then pivot to how the best founders (Dario Amodei, Brian Armstrong, Reed Hastings, Elon Musk) spotted emerging markets before anyone else. They close with a hot take on Anthropic's rumoured vibe coding platform and what it means for Lovable and Replit.Timestamps:00:00
Lego's Near-Death & Anthropic's Insane Growth: Lessons in Focus, Culture & Strategy
How Lego nearly went bankrupt by losing sight of its core product and what it teaches us about culture, focus, and CEO decisions. Plus, a breakdown of Anthropic's jaw-dropping $30B run rate and what's fuelling it.Timestamps:00:00 - Intro02:04 - Lego deep dive - origin, near-bankruptcy & recovery lessons19:15 - The "wrong CEO" trap & staying focused as you scale34:49 - Anthropic c
Lego vs. S&P 500, The Claude Code Leak & Why Google Acquiring a Company Is the Best Signal to Build
Sabba and Charlie are back with a packed episode spanning alternative asset classes, the growing wave of security vulnerabilities in vibe-coded software, and a deep dive into what it really means for Anthropic to be "winning enterprise." They also break down the accidental Claude Code source map leak, debate whether angel investing is just an expensive hobby, and uncover a surprisingly ma
$1M Boomer App Ideas, Why OpenAI Killed Sora & How to Hire Insanely Talented People
This week Charlie and Saba dig into $1M app ideas hiding in boomer hobbies, why OpenAI killed Sora and what it says about focus, and how to hire the most talented people. Saba's joining remotely from Sicily 🇮🇹, commitment to the pod is real.Timestamps:00:00 - Intro01:02 - $1M Boomer App Ideas18:48 - OpenAI Shuts Down Sora24:39 - The Importance of Focus34:25 - How to Hire Talented People45
How to Build AI Products in 2026, The Most Underrated Marketing Channel & The Big Lie About Competition
Sabba and Charlie cover how to build AI products in 2026 with Sabba's MAGIC Framework, why Threads might be the most underrated marketing channel, the big lie about competition, and how AI is giving content creators new ways to extend their work.Timestamps:00:52 - First hate mail, we're famous now02:01 - Why Sabba tore up the entire Q2 roadmap06:32 - The MAGIC Framework, building AI produ
How to Get Startup Ideas in 2026, OpenClaw Business Opportunities, Londonmaxxing, and more
Saba and Charlie introduce the BROTH framework for finding validated startup ideas, dive into the Open Claw (AI agents) hype, break down Bending Spoons' private equity playbook, and celebrate the London Maxing movement, plus debate whether Charlie invented vibe coding.Timecodes:00:00 - Intro00:38 - The BROTH Framework, how to find pre-validated startup ideas25:06 - Competitive positioning
Cal AI’s Acquisition, Sabba’s 2 SaaS Growth Hacks for 2026, Intercom’s AI Pivot
Saba and Charlie do napkin math on the Cal AI acquisition by MyFitnessPal, share two must-do growth strategies for 2026 (API-first and Social SEO), and break down how Intercom bet the whole company on AI and won.Timecodes:00:00 – Intro00:33 – Cal AI Acquisition Breakdown19:20 – Growth Strategy #1: Go API-First29:33 – Growth Strategy #2: Social SEO36:46 – How Intercom Saved Itself with AI4
He Built a $1M/Month SaaS After an $8M Exit | Tibo Maker
From an $8M exit to building it all again, Tibo is one of the most unique SaaS builders we’ve met. In this episode, we unpack his regrets after selling, the exact playbook behind his $1M/month portfolio, how he stays viral on X, and what building in the AI era really looks like, all while balancing life as a dad. 00:00 Intro & the $8M exit reality02:07 $1M/month portfolio breakdown06:
Is OpenClaw the First $1B Solo Company? API-First Products, Brand Rituals & Buying a Top-Level Domain
We kick things off with B2B SaaS lessons learned from Valentine's Day (yes, really), then spiral into whether the OpenClaw acquisition just produced the world's first one-person billion dollar company and whether Peter Steinberger is the most underrated engineer alive.From there we get into why most SaaS companies are failing at AI, the rise of API-first and agent-first products, and why
$70M AI.com Acquisition, Anthropic's Superbowl Shot at OpenAI, $1M Solo Fitness App & Agent Wrapper Boom
This week we’re unpacking the $70M AI.com move, Anthropic taking shots at OpenAI, the rise of agent wrappers, and a quiet $1M solo app no one’s talking about.Timestamps:00:00 – The $70M AI.com Sale03:10 – The $15M Super Bowl Bet: Does the Math Work?10:10 – Charlie's Recent Domain Purchase & Do Dot Coms Matter?18:54 – Getting Scammed by Joe Exotic (B2B SaaS Lessons)24:32 – The Rise of
Is OpenClaw’s Hype Real? Are AI Agents Replacing Jobs? What’s the Anti-AI Thesis?
The Napkin Math duo is back with another episode. We spend most of this one trying to make sense of AI agents, OpenClaw - the new kid on the block, and why this wave feels messier but more real than the last few. We talk through hype vs reality, what agents can actually do today, and how work is quietly shifting from roles and seats to tasks and systems. We also discuss AI fluency levels,
How Jonny (Founder of Remotion) Got 14M Views on X in a Day
The duo is back with another episode, and this time we’ve got a guest. Jonny Burger, founder of Remotion, joins us after accidentally pulling 14M+ views overnight on X. We chat about vibe coding, prompting motion graphics with Claude, and why building with AI feels different right now. We also get into how Jonny handled the sudden attention, the noise, and acquisition offers that followed
Is Claude the New ChatGPT? Is Peter Thiel a Billionaire? Meta-Manus, $1M Plank Biz, Solo SaaS Rise
We have some news!!!Napkin Math Podcast is now live on YouTube.The episode starts with a life update (Sabba’s new baby) and somehow turns childbirth into actual B2B SaaS lessons. From there, it spirals into whether Peter Thiel is really a billionaire, why Claude feels like another GPT-4 moment, and how vibe coding is accelerating the rise of one-person companies.It then breaks down Meta’s
Christmas Special: $100M ARR Frenzy, LLM Wars, Sergey’s Comeback, ChatGPT App Store Opportunity, Prediction Markets, 2025 Awards & 2026 Predictions
Sabba and Charlie are back for a special Christmas episode. A 2-hour deep dive split into two parts.In the first, the chaps dive into the $100M ARR frenzy across AI startups, break down the Claude Opus 4.5 release, and debate the escalating LLM wars between Google, OpenAI, and Anthropic. They also discuss Sergey Brin’s return to Google, the opportunity emerging around the ChatGPT App Stor
5+ Startup Idea Frameworks and Making Britain Rich Again
After a mini hiatus the boys are back with a banger. 5 startup idea frameworks you can use to start the next unicorn or profitable bootstrapped business. Plus, they inadvertently start the Ben Tossell fan club, and talk about making the UK rich again.00:00 Napkin Math - Startup Idea Frameworks01:43 Startup idea framework 1 - copy your competitors06:23 Framework 2 - build an indirect compe
B2B SaaS lessons from breaking your leg, VEED's new CTO and AI launch
After spending weeks in hospital with a broken leg, Charlie has had plenty of time to think about B2B SaaS lessons for the pod, and he delivers. The chaps also chat about VEED's new CTO hire, their Fabric 1.0 launch and brainstorm existing businesses that could inject AI to get to $100m quickly.Timestamps:00:00 Intro02:07 B2B SaaS lessons from breaking your leg19:50 Why VEED hired a new C
Crazy Figma IPO, why VPNs have become VERY popular and is DeepMind the best acquisition of all time?
Today Sabba and Charlie break down the Figma IPO and speculate on which company will be the next Figma. They question whether the chat interface for AI is outdated, and debate if DeepMind might be the greatest acquisition of all time, plus who’s most likely to win the AGI race. They also dig into the UK’s online safety act, why VPNs are booming, and wrap up with a very cheeky “recording b
How VEED founder uses ChatGPT, Duolingo's $1billion freemium masterstroke and more AI chat
Sabba talks about how he uses ChatGPT, Charlie talks use cases for Claude Code and the duo debate whether the UK is an impossible place to bootstrap. Sabba also share lessons on hiring top talent early, and dissect Duolingo’s $1billion freemium play (with a 15% churn rate) before comparing it to VEED’s freemium vs free trial approach.00:00 Intro00:28 How a VC-backed founder uses ChatGPT
Loveable's insane raise, how to make $1m with eSIMs and breaking down the most effective growth channels
The boys are back talking about Loveable's insane growth and $200m raise, the dangers of founder liquidity, plus more AI chat (of course). Charlie turns Sabba into BusinessGuruGPT prompting him with how he'd grow an eSIM business to $1m in a year. All this, and more, in this week's episode of NAPKIN MATH.Timestamps00:00 Intro00:30 Loveable raises $200m05:58 Jason Lemkin's Replit disaster0
Make £26k profit with fans, Ahrefs for LLMs and print money with an AI automation consultancy
Sabba and Charlie kick things off with some napkin math on how to make £26k per year in pure profit selling fans, then dive into a the real money maker; an AI automation consultancy. They talk about the rise of the “VEED (or Indie Beers) Mafia,” and discuss JB's Ahrefs-style tool for LLMs. 00:00 Intro00:20 Portable fan Napkin Math09:22 Startup idea: AI automation consultancy15:28 AI for m
Figma going public, SaaS lessons from 50 Cent and the business of Glastonbury (and will Ramen Club become a nation state?)
After a hiatus that included a weekend at Glastonbury and a failed recording, the boys are back, and they are on fire. They break down the business of the Glastonbury festival and some new startup ideas around it, they talk about the Figma S1 filing and the insane numbers behind the software platform and Charlie talks about the future of Ramen Space potentially becoming a nation state.
Small bets are a terrible idea and how VEED ranked for "AI Video Generator" (SEO Playbook)
On this episode of Napkin Math, Sabba and Charlie explain why “small bets” are a terrible idea for most founders. They unpack how VEED ranks #1 for “AI video generator” (and other competitive keywords), explore Ben’s idea for a dream analysis app, the surprising business case for astrology, and how AI agents could thrive in markets like Nigeria. Sabba also shares why he believes the globa
SaaS lessons from Trump & Musk falling out, TikTok shop business opportunities and why you need to reinvent yourself
There’s been a major catfight on the internet this week: Trump vs. Elon. So, Charlie did what any good podcast host would do and distilled the best lessons SaaS founders can take from the drama. The guys also share feedback from listeners, chat about opportunities in TikTok Shop, discuss why companies need to reinvent themselves, and of course, Charlie gets Sabba into trouble.Timestamps00
The cost of VEED's video AI model, did Slack just kill Charlie's SaaS? and LLM business ideas
Fresh off the launch of VEEDs new AI, Sabba is excited about the company having built their own fully fledged AI model, so breaks down how much it cost to build it. Charlie, meanwhile has had some bad news about his SaaS app, Cosy, potentially being killed off by Slack's new restrictions. The chaps also fire off some "Loveable for X" business ideas, with the main opportunity in gaming.00:
Google's impressive AI launch, Jony Ive's $6b Open AI deal and Sabba's breakfast at the PMs house
The boys have made it to 10 episodes, somehow. They are still talking about AI, this time after the impressive Google Gemini launch they discuss the possibilities (including getting a new podcast co-host). Sabba talks about the pastries he had at 10 Downing Street and if they think Jony Ive's $6bn Open AI deal is worth it.Timestamps00:00 Intro00:39 Google's new AI launch09:12 Future chall
Opportunities in the running space, how to stick to ideas and Dracula's castle
Charlie is back from Dracula's castle and Sabba is back from running a marathon. They are both arriving inspired. They do some Napkin Math on the economics of the running industry and the opportunities there, and how long it will be before they can pump out daily Dracula movies.Timestamps:00:00 Intro04:00 Marathon running breakdown and opportunties12:35 Runna acquisition Napkin Math25:18
Why you aren't working hard enough, big podcast update and a hack for creating luck
After 7 beautiful episodes, the MRR show is dead. But fear not, Napkin Math is born from its ashes. Sabba and Charlie discuss the performance of the show, dig into where Sabba invests his angel money, do a business breakdown (some actual napkin math) before going on a tirade on founders why founders aren't working hard enough...Timestamps00:00 Intro00:23 New podcast name05:27 Podcast grow
AI image generation opportunities, how to make an entertaining video and are trade shows worth it for VEED?
Sabba is tired after being at a trade show all week for VEED, but was it worth it? Sabba and Charlie discuss the cost and results. But there's nothing better than a pick me up recording with BBQ crisp-eating Charlie Ward, who finally has some MRR for his SaaS app. The chaps talk all things AI, opportunities, SaaS drama and more.Timestamps00:00 Intro01:20 How much does a SaaS trade show co
Making money from tariffs, bullish on the UK and the evolution of "make something people search for"
Sabba went to Sri Lanka and came back with fire in his belly. He's ready to make money from the tariffs and so he discusses with Charlie how he'd do it. This got them thinking about the lack of energy in the US at the moment, and why they're bullish on the UK as a place to build. They wrap up talking about the biggest mega trend to make money with in 2025.Timestamps00:00 - Intro00:27 What
The $100m ARR future of VEED, 11x drama and do you need an audience?
B2B SaaS drama has got spicy recently, with both 11x and Deel making headlines. Sabba and Charlie give their take on why the companies got in hot water and if it's justified. Sabba also gives his thoughts on the future of VEED as they storm towards their $100m ARR goal and what happens next for the company.Timestamps00:00 MRR Show 00501:06 Harry Dry's marketing course08:02 The 11x drama14
UK vs US for startups, Charlie's new coworking space and VEED's NYC subway advertising breakdown
This week Sabba and Charlie still struggle to get their audio recorded properly* but the content is top notch. Dubbed the UK's answer to My First Million, the two kick off with debating if the UK is better than the US for building a startup. Sabba questions Charlie's sanity starting a coworking space in London, before explaining how much VEED spent on bright green advertising on the NYC s
ADHD product opportunity, Third Space for martial arts and Project Europe
Charlie and Sabba are back three weeks later for their weekly podcast, bringing you some banger business ideas. The chaps dive into Exploding Topics and discuss opportunities in ADHD, creating a Third Space style martial arts gym and building a better dentist. They're also bullish on Project Europe.Timestamps:00:00 Intro02:39 VC fund for consumer brands05:23 Charlie's consumer trend idea2
Directories, a d*ck measuring app and a sure-fire $10k MRR idea
Charlie and Sabba are back, fighting through a challenging remote connection, bringing you a cracking set of business ideas. Charlie brings a few interesting product discoveries from Indie Beers in Lisbon and Sabba stumbled across a $5-10k MRR idea while in a Ford Fiesta.Timestamps00:00 The MRR Show ep 201:28 D*ck measuring app03:52 Funeral directory business08:16 Feedback on episode 113:
(Pilot) AI pets, growth for free and why you should start a sauna
Hello and welcome to the pilot episode of The MRR Show, with Charlie Ward and Sabba Keynejad. Charlie is the founder of Ramen Club and Sabba is the co-founder of VEED.io. The duo are coming together for this pilot episode, to share their thoughts on SaaS, tech and startups, from the perspective of two successful founders with Charlie being the heart of the london indie community and Sabba
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